How to successfully sell a bus

[HighTechRedneck]

A couple of recent threads prompted me to think about this.  We often see critiques of buses for sale and of the sellers.  And there have been threads discussing what to consider when looking for a bus to buy.  How about we put together a thread of tips on best practices for selling a bus?  

When the thread has run its course, we'll put it in the technical archive board for easy access. (arguably not technical, but ultimately selling a bus is often an important part of the ownership cycle and is technical in its own way).

I'll kick it off with a few things I tell people setting up classifieds when they ask for tips or seem uncertain, along with other observations:

• Take good photos.
  
  
  
  • Clean it up inside and out the best you can.
  • If things are stored in the bus that won't go with it, take them out.  If they will go with it, make sure they are stowed neatly.
  • Choose a pretty day weather wise if possible.
  • Photograph it in its own space without other vehicles crowding it and detracting from the photo.
• Store the photos in one folder on your computer where you can easily find them.
• If you don't already know how to attach photos to an email, learn it now before you are on the spot with a potential buyer.
• Better yet, if you don't already have a Photobucket account (free) get one and create an album of photos, including carefully thought out descriptions for each photo.  (The reasons I prefer Photobucket are that it is free, pretty simple to learn, easy to post photos from it to forums and emails, the viewer doesn't have to register to view it unless you make the album private.  As a viewer few things aggravate me more than having to register on yet another photo album site in order to view the photos somebody wants me to see.)
• Likewise, have all your facts organized in a document on your computer that you can easily copy and paste into emails about it or discuss with them on the phone.  Have a copy of it with you when you meet with them to look at the bus.  This will save you a lot of time and ensure you give the right facts every time, even when you are tired or distracted.
• Even though it can take months to sell a bus, keep it clean and well presented.  In all types of selling, product presentation is critical.  A clean bus in a maintained setting will always sell easier and for a better price than the exact same bus would dirty and sitting among weeds and debris.
• When setting a price:
  
  • Study listings for similar buses and set a price that is consistent with the market.
  • Never expect that you can get out of it anything resembling what you have in it.
  • While keeping it within the market price range, allow yourself room to negotiate.  It is a very rare day you will get your initial asking price unless you are "giving it away" to start with.  I know people who say "this is the price, take it or not".  But I also know that people have a deeply ingrained tendency to negotiate on large ticket items.  Even GM wasn't able to make fixed pricing work in car sales.
• Be polite and professional in all interactions with potential buyers even when they may be less than Mr. or Ms. Congeniality.  That person that is striking you as abrasive and perhaps a little arrogant may never become your friend, but they just might be the one that will end up handing you the cash for the bus.
• List it in more than one venue.  Of course I am biased for the BCM Classifieds and they are a good place to list.  But also list in all the free venues you can (Craigslist, BNO, Yahoo Groups that allow it, etc.)  Also consider a couple runs at eBay.  Few buses sell during the auction, but it gets exposure - it is simply another way to advertise it in front of a big audience.
• If you can, take it to one of the large rallies and have a for sale sign on it.  Have a few info kits made up with photos of it and fact sheets along with your contact information to give to interested people.

[Eagle Andy]

How about some way to determine the value of your Bus some sort of form or apprasiel system. To get a fair price or at least a starting point. Just my thought.

[RJ]

Mike -

Good Thread!

I'd like to add to the point about having a document ready:

• Use a word processing program to create your document.  Portrait rather than landscape format is best.
• Use the spell check often - misspelled words in a "sales brochure" sometimes create a sense of sloppiness that can roll over to the workmanship of the coach in the potential customer's mind.
• Likewise, make sure you're using the correct form of a word syntactically - They're, there and their all sound the same, but mean different things.  (They're going over there to pick up their bus conversion.)  Break and brake is another example.  (I'm going to take a break before I work on my bus's brakes.)
• Check to see if your word processing program has an option to save the document as a ".pdf" file.  Most likely found under the "File" menu at the top left of the screen.  Once in .pdf format, your document can easily be attached to an email and, more importantly, be read by the recipient, since most folk have Adobe Reader on their computers nowadays.  Plus you don't have to worry about Mac vs PC file formats, let alone Microslop's Word vs Corel's far-better WordPerfect.
• Break up your document into multiple paragraphs, based on various subject areas.  Use a simple line in bold font to highlight the beginning of the next subject.
• Along the same lines, group all chassis descriptions and house system descriptions together.
• If you're really proficient with your word processor, you can get creative and import some of your bus photos into the document as teasers for each subject.  Wrap the text around the photo for additional effect.  For example, put, in large bold type, "For Sale 1983 MCI MC-9 Bus Conversion".  Then, immediately below, insert a large (post card size) front 3/4 view photo of the coach.  Below the photo, create a short (3 - 4 sentences) opening descriptive paragraph about the vehicle before getting into the full description section.
• Include the history of the bus as you know it, from the original owner, who did the conversion, etc.
• VIN inclusion is up to you, but if you don't, have it handy for folk who ask.  (Like me, if it's a GMC!)
• Before you post the document online anywhere, or print it out, have somebody else READ the document, then have them read it out loud back to you.  Good way to catch errors you've overlooked.

I'd also like to add to the point about photographs:

• Do NOT post photos that are out of focus or too dark to see detail.  Comes across as sloppy and not paying attention.
• Early morning (sunrise) and late evening (near sunset) can create dramatic effects for your exterior photos.  Best pics are with the light source behind the camera for the non-professional photogs among us.  Try to avoid shooting the shady side of the coach during these times - the subject will be dark with less detail.
• When in doubt, use the flash.  Best if you can use a remote flash to bounce the light, rather than reflecting back.  Avoid posting pics with "hot spots" where the flash over-powered just a single area, leaving the rest dark.
• Use the flash to fill in darker areas, like inside a bay or closet, again being careful about hot spots.
• Be careful with the flash and mirrors.  Stand to the side and shoot at an angle, so the flash doesn't reflect directly back at the camera.
• Along that same line, be careful about getting your own reflection in the mirror - it's distracting to the viewer.  And be dressed nicely just in case, too!  (Somewhere there's a photo from Craigslist of a dining room table set for sale that the beer-bellied naked fellow who took the photo is reflected in the dining room mirror!)
  
• Putting a couple layers of Scotch Magic Tape over the flash can help "soften" the light so it's not as harsh.  Be sure to remove the tape when finished!!
• If you have, or have access to, an SLR-type camera with interchangeable lenses, using a 28 > 35 mm wide-angle will help give better perspective with your indoor shots.  This type camera also frequently has a separate, adjustable flash unit that can be used to bounce the light for better photos.
• If in doubt at all about getting your photos in focus, especially indoors, then use a tri-pod to support the camera.
• Group and arrange the photos on Photobucket like you're giving a tour.  It's very distracting to be looking at exterior pics and then suddenly be looking at the loo.  If the photo tour matches the above written description, even better.

As you can see, prepping your advertising for selling your coach, if you really want to do it right, takes some time and effort.  The better your homework, the better your chances of making the sale.

Many folk have discovered, it's easy to buy a bus, but very, very difficult to sell a mistake.  Hopefully, this thread's tips will help lead potential buyers to your coach.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[artvonne]

  I think you hit most of the points. As a buyer, it is amazing to see the number of Buses with no pictures, and even more amazing to not have any provided after asking, sometimes after asking more than once. I dont ask twice anymore, and I dont call back either. Its a buyers market.

 One area I didnt see mentioned, is the relationship sellers could show toward long distant buyers. Whether we are looking at a $4500 Bus, or a $450K Bus, if we are far away, we cant simply stop by and look at your rig. As a seller, anything I ever offered for sale, I am always accomodating to people farther away. Thats not to say I will wait all week for you to get away from work, but if your saying your coming, even if its two or three days out, I will hold it for you. Selling it out from under someone who said they are on their way, after telling them you would hold it, is despicable. Here again, long distance buyers need good pictures. Front to back, back to front, all the nooks and cranies, even a floor plan drawing would be nice. If it has a problem or some issue, show it. tell about it. Its not going to disappear when a prospective buyer shows up, and if they see something obvious you didnt disclose, your going to look like a crook.

 Another thing I would suggest is watching your picture file size. Some of the new digital cameras have resolution so high, one picture can use many megabytes and take a lot of time to load. Put a bunch of these up on a site, and the amount of data can slow the computer to a crawl or freeze it up. If it takes 20 minutes to load and I still cant see anything, I will back out and move on. You should reduce pictures down to no more than 300 kb. If anyone wants higher resolution, we can ask. Remember, even though many of us have high speed connections, not everyone does, and the system does not always operate at high speed when everyone is on it, like after the kids get home from school. Your supposed 5gig speed can be slowed to 300kb/s, or even slower, under high demand.

 Lastly, I would suggest these are like selling a house. The longer they sit on the market, the less interest they get. I look at a lot of Buses, and the longer they are up for sale, the less interest I have. I see an old ad and before I even click I say "that bus again", and pass it by. Much of that is simply from the idea that if the Bus was at all valuable at that asking price, it would have sold already. And the farther away it is, the longer its for sale, the more I start thinking its overpriced or has something wrong with it. I know the market is down, and if your selling you cant be very happy giving away all your time and effort. Some of the rigs up for sale had to cost a fortune to build, and everyone wants to pay peanuts. But thats the market. If I buy your Bus, I will have just as hard a time selling it tomorrow, and probably for less than I would pay today. If you really want top dollar, you need to follow all of this advice. Clean it up, show it off, and start out at a realistic price in todays market.

  Awesome thread, and great timing. Thanks for starting it.

[robertglines1]

Difficult subject for me know since it is time to part with the 89. I have a price I need and could ask a much higher price and come down to it. What is wrong with being honest? Guess it is a causality of modern times. Sorry to see it go. Bob

[HighTechRedneck]

 Another thing I would suggest is watching your picture file size. Some of the new digital cameras have resolution so high, one picture can use many megabytes and take a lot of time to load. Put a bunch of these up on a site, and the amount of data can slow the computer to a crawl or freeze it up. If it takes 20 minutes to load and I still cant see anything, I will back out and move on. You should reduce pictures down to no more than 300 kb. If anyone wants higher resolution, we can ask. Remember, even though many of us have high speed connections, not everyone does, and the system does not always operate at high speed when everyone is on it, like after the kids get home from school. Your supposed 5gig speed can be slowed to 300kb/s, or even slower, under high demand.

That is another good thing about using Photobucket.  It automatically resizes them down to a friendly size on screen that you can save directly to your computer.  Or you can click the "File" menu above the photo to download the full size photo.  Best of both worlds.

To be fair, most other photo album sites also have that ability.   But there again, several of them make you register or even pay for a membership to do that.  

[HighTechRedneck]

Difficult subject for me know since it is time to part with the 89. I have a price I need and could ask a much higher price and come down to it. What is wrong with being honest? Guess it is a causality of modern times. Sorry to see it go. Bob

Bob, I sure understand how tough it must be to sell off a beloved bus even when upgrading.  I can't imagine selling mine, a lot of memories and sentimentality in it.

As for the price, I'm not saying make it a much higher price, just leave some room so you can accommodate the buyer that gets satisfaction from negotiating.  In fact you have to be careful not to put it up too high.  Setting the price anticipating negotiation isn't being dishonest, just being prepared.  Negotiating the price in a large sale isn't anything new though.  People have been taking pride in their ability to haggle down the prices of homes and cars for a long time.  Car companies have been building it into their MSRP for 60+ years and it has been a part of land/home sales for centuries.

I sometimes joke that if you offer a gold brick at $5 most buyers will try to talk you down to $4.  They aren't being hostile or confrontational and it has nothing to do with market value at that point.  It is just wired into the way most people think as they approach a large purchase.

[luvrbus]

Selling a bus can be a nightmare people can drive you nuts wanting photos and details with you knowing they have no interest in buying or the cash nothing wrong with screening people to buy your prized possesion I did that it was between 3 people and I sold to the one I thought would most appreciate my efforts and the best home for it just my way of doing things I know strange huh


good luck

[John316]

I think this is one of the best descriptions that is out there. Very tastefully done. Good pictures, and the price is (was?) peanuts.
http://kevinwarnock.com/2011/01/06/1967-mci-5a-challenger-bus-conversion-for-sale/


FWIW

God bless,

John

[HighTechRedneck]

Selling a bus can be a nightmare people can drive you nuts wanting photos and details with you knowing they have no interest in buying or the cash nothing wrong with screening people to buy your prized possesion I did that it was between 3 people and I sold to the one I thought would most appreciate my efforts and the best home for it just my way of doing things I know strange huh


good luck

Clifford, that's not strange at all.  You are very respected around the bus nut world and have such an exceptional reputation for your skills and knowledge that it naturally inspires trust, confidence and even expectation in people that your bus would be a true prized possession.  It makes sense that there would be people lining up with interest in buying it. 

That may well be Bob's experience too.  And there are a few other bus nuts that are long term active participants in the online bus nut community here and on BNO, and others that have frequented the rallies and been active members of bus nut clubs for a few years, that have become "known" for their dedication to excellence and good workmanship.  That kind of a reputation makes attracting serious buyers much more probable. 

It makes a good argument for getting involved in the bus nut community early on and building a solid reputation.

[bobofthenorth]

On the subject of pricing, the first rule of retail is show the price.  When you walk down the aisle at Walmart you don't have to stop a clerk to find out how much that towel is worth.  When you advertise anything you need to put the price on it.  If your price is so far out of line that nobody phones you .... the problem isn't that you put the price in the ad, the problem is the price that you put in the ad.  I've sold a lot of equipment over the years and I tend to advertise it at the top end of what similar equipment is selling for and then stick pretty close to what I asked.  I don't mind taking a "little bit" off to close the sale but we're talking 5% not 15%.  So I guess I agree with Mike's advice to leave a little room but don't leave so much room that you look like a fool.

[Cerise]

I buy would like to know how to successfully buy one.

[oldmansax]

I buy would like to know how to successfully buy one.

That statement here is like throwing red meat to a pack of hungry wolves!!!

You will soon be inundated with PMs & emails from people who have buses for sale, and more discrete, but  hopeful  communications like this one. 

In my case, my MC7 is for sale and the price is, unfortunately for me, "make me an offer"   

TOM