Do magnetic oil block heaters help on our engines?

[belfert]

Would one of the magnetic oil pan heaters help on an engine as big as ours?

I can't install a regular block heater as Dina used that port on the block for something else.  My Series 60 will start right up when temps are in the 20s, but in the teens it really starts to struggle.  I have to crank it a few times and then give it an extended crank to get it started at those temps.

[wildbob24]

Brian,

Every 60 series I've seen has had a cast aluminum oil pan. Might pose a problem for a magnetic heater. Is yours different?

Bob

[TomC]

I've never seen a steel oil pan for a Series 60-and quite frankly haven't seen an aluminum pan either.  Most I've seen are composite.  Good Luck, TomC

[Busted Knuckle]

And aside from the magnetic heater not sticking to the oil pan on a 60 series. I've seen where a magnetic block heater caused the oil pan on an 8V92 to fatigue and break apart where it had been! (the oil pan busted and lost a lot of oil and the heater too!)
Not sure if it's common, or how long it took to happen, just know that is what I saw when I crawled under the guys bus to see where his major oil leak was coming from on a service call once! He was from MI and said they pretty much left it there year round and used it most of the time in the winter!
FWIW
  BK 

[belfert]

Any other alternatives for preheating the engine that are reasonably easy and don't involve breaking into the cooliing system?

[brando4905]

Brian,

I've seen some that replace the dipstick, and some that screw into the oil drain plug. Don't know if they'll work on the DD's,
but worth a try.


http://www.ronshomeandhardware.com/KAT15200-20-Oil-Dipstick-Heater-p/302643.htm?click=1014

Brandon

[buswarrior]

Electric heater aimed down the air intake. Or your torch.

The critical point to winter starting aids is to get a fire in the cylinder.

Compression ignition demands a certain temperature is reached on the compression stroke.

Start with the cylinder and air too cold, and the heat of compression won't ever reach the heights necessary for fire.

Warming the coolant has the side benefit of helping the cold oil get flowing when it reaches the block, and some heat sooner for the occupants. Big trucks often have both an in-block coolant and in-oilpan electric heater from the factory wired to one plug.

So, heat the air, in the moment, and be done with it, if you don't want to carve into the coolant lines.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[belfert]

I found an oil heater for the Series 60, but it says it is for keeping already warm oil warm.  It is not supposed to be used for warming up cold oil.

I just don't want to break into the cooling system right now in freezing cold weather.  I do plan convert to extended life coolant, but that will wait until warmer weather.  At that time I can add an inline coolant heater or something.  I had a Zerostart coolant heater in my VW TDI engine that went into a coolant line.  VW didn't make an engine heater at all because they claimed it isn't needed, but there were times when my engine wouldn't start unless heated.

My air intake is at least 10 feet long because it pulls air from the roof line.  Will a heater that far from the engine really help?

[buswarrior]

From ground level, pull out the air cleaner, aim it down the hole, be prepared to prevent/rescue it from being sucked into the hole and have at it.

Stick the air cleaner back in once it is running.

Yes, it will also work from way up there too. You aren't in arctic conditions.

How many degrees rise in temperature do you want?

I'm only after the few degrees to get the air temp back to someplace it will fire, in whichever cylinder will go bang, so a few degrees above freezing, and a few more for to compensate for all the cold metal sucking the heat back out of the incoming charge?

This would also be a cheaper alternative for the tired engine folks to experiment with in above freezing temps, you only need the 1500 watts when you are starting, not for the hours ahead of time that a block heater consumes.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[zubzub]

Here is an old farmer's trick for cold starts.  Put some diesel in an old hubcap, get a full roll of tp, get it nice and wet with diesel, stick it tube up in the middle of the hubcap, light it  with a propane torch, makes a nice little heater, put it under oil pan and toast your engine 'til golden brown.
This works better for tractors and trucks as there is more clearance (maybe cut the tp roll in half?) and of course you have to watch out for any electrical or other lines that might get burnt.  This is the fast and dirty way.  A nice coal fire has less/lower flame and probably easier to get under a bus engine without burning the whole thing down, but it takes longer, and farmers are always in a rush.

BTW did I mention BURNING YOUR BUS DOWN, be careful and this info is provided for entertainment purposes only.

If you do burn you bus down, make sure you take some videos.

[bobofthenorth]

Pencil heaters screwed into the oil pan will do a surprising amount of good - it sticks in my mind that the last one I had was 750 watts.  A lot of the resistance to rolling a cold engine over is just stiff oil.  Lighting a fire under the block works but its a little old school.  A safer version of the same basic method is to find yourself a piece of 4 or 5 inch pipe about 4 feet long and put an elbow on one end of it.  Stick the end with the elbow under the engine so the elbow is pointed up at the pan.  Stick a tiger torch in the other end of the pipe (I think you guys call it a weed burner).  If you do it right all that comes out of the elbow is hot air, no flame.  It doesn't take long to take an engine fron a -30 degree block of cast iron to a warm summer day start.  Another important item to remember is keeping your batteries warm.  A cold battery drops quickly to less than half its warm weather cranking capacity.  I have battery blankets on both batteries - I don't hope to have to use them again but its nice to know they are there if I need them.

[Lin]

Do you think that a one or two second shot of ether into the air intake is that bad?

[Zeroclearance]

Brian;

Where are you looking at on the engine to put the heater?   Mine is located on the drivers side of the engine.  I can't believe that you don't have a plug that can't be removed.

[Busted Knuckle]

Zub,
I see you also mentioned the old trick we used to use. "Elcheapo" charcoal grill under the oil pan for 1/2 hr or so = warmed up engine easy start. (and no flame - at lease not much of one!)
  BK 

[belfert]

Where are you looking at on the engine to put the heater?   Mine is located on the drivers side of the engine.  I can't believe that you don't have a plug that can't be removed.

I bought one a few years back.  The instructions said to place in a plug on or near the oil cooler on the Series 60.  That hole is filled with a hose for the passenger heating system on my bus.  No alternative location was listed so I returned the block heater.

I need to take my bus to the shop to get the air system checked over so I will ask them about the block heater.