Jake Brake upgrade to Series 60?? from TranRetard

[Dirtball]

I have a 1996 MCI DL3 with DD Series 60 and B500 with retarder. During hot weather running bus air I get some high tranny temps while on the retarder. This heat transfers to the main and I'll see the main water temp bump up some. I have a tranny temp guage, so I know when to lay off the retarder and  let things cool. I am 48,000 lbs "empty".  I do pull a trailer at times- 5-6k lbs...  I have yet to travel real mountain roads like some of you deal with regularly.  I just heard it's not a tough upgrade to add a Jake, and that the "wiring is already there". I was told I can have both the retarder and the Jake. I am no DD mechanic, but have access to a talented DD pro-- sounds great...any comments...

[Ed Hackenbruch]

Don't know where you are at, but out west here there are places where they have road signs telling you to turn off your ac when climbing hills in hot weather to keep from overheating. This applies to cars as well as trucks and buses.

[luvrbus]

John316 has Jake's and the retarder on his MCI with the series 60 sounds like a good setup the wire maybe there but it will still need too be turn on through the ECM may take some more programing so both don't come on at one time.Check with John316 here on the board he hasn't had the Jake's very long.
Fwiw if you need the Jakes the guy at Arizona Transmission in Tucson has barrels of Jake's for 60 series I have no idea what he charges for a set. 1-888-395-1392


good luck

[TomC]

Yes you can run both a transmission retarder (which is good for in city quiet stopping power) and a Jake brake (which is best for long down hills on the highway).  But-install an either/or switch that lets you select either the trans retarder or the Jake brake, but not both at the same time.  The power that both produce could be in the 800hp range which is too much for your drive line and differential.  At the least, you'd probably produce some healthy skid marks if both were used together.  With the either/or switch, you'll have the best of both worlds of retarders.  Good Luck, TomC

[buswarrior]

I am a big fan of a driver controlled transmission retarder. When it is all working well, smooth and silent assistance in vehicle deceleration.

However...

If it were mine, after witnessing a large set of "D" models of that vintage run in a first line fleet, 30 coaches or so, with associated warranty issues over transmissions and overheating...

I would add a SUBSTANTIAL auxiliary oil-to-air cooler to take the heat load out of the engine rad. The engine rad cannot handle extremes of temp and retarder use. Couldn't do it when they were new, sure won't do it in the hands of a busnut, as you have reported.

The curb side engine access door on that model is a nice large place to install one, line goes out of tranny, through the new cooler, and then back to the stock fittings.

For a "D" with a retarder, I'd go as big as possible, all the way to one big enough to stand alone, if you can fit one big enough. With a thermostatically controlled, suitably large fan,
you'll take the tension out of watching the temp gauges.
Because they won't move much anymore.

As noted, installing Jakes is more than just slapping in some expensive parts.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Zeroclearance]

Dirtball,  the Jakes are nice coming down the grades..   Have you changed your tranny fluid lately?   I'd draw some fluid out and get it tested.   BTW it's easy to change the two Allison oil filters.   The cost to rebuild these tranny's will leave a dent in your wallet.

[Dirtball]

I have changed the tranny fluid twice with synthetic over the 6 years of ownership. Filters have been changed also .  Only 45,000mi on the unit since new. First owner was very hard on tranny I am sure. I can recall my first test ride with him where he showed off the retarder repeatedly by bringing the bus to a halt while using no brakes...i am sure he used to peg the temp gauge playing with his toy. My curbside engine access houses 2 cruise-airs.  Luckily I don't live around too many long steep grades. My day job keeps me off the road much, but soon we hope go on the big ride out of Dodge into the sunset and see those long grades. I'll get  my question list honed down as I get closer to a Jake install- we have no rush, nice barn and a seasoned mechanic(MCI/DD), who is wrenching on Vanhools and some cheap chinese bus , who loves crawling over my rig. The Jake is beyond my ability for now, though I'll watch--- see one, do one, Teach one.

[lostagain]

You can look on Jakebrake.com. They have an installation manual. That will give you an idea of what's involved ahead of time.

JC

[John316]

DB,

Like Luvr said, we have a DL3 also. The biggest thing that you will have with the Jake install, is that you have to raise the floor in the back bedroom to accommodate the raised rocker cover. That wasn't a problem for us, because we welded a nice frame around it, covered it in EHP (on top of the metal "boxing). Remember, if you do any welding on your rig, make sure that you disconnect the engine and tranny, computers, and the batteries (this is a debated subject on the board, but it is better to be safe then sorry).

Now about the retarder and Jakes combined...When we are in traffic, we will often have both on. Our retarder "strength" is not manually operable, and it certainly isn't on it highest setting. The retarder is applied when the dash switch is on, and when the brake peddle is depressed.

We haven't had a problem at all with using both (again, for very short periods of time, and often if it is a fast stop, however is driving can hit the retarder switch to really stop). We have used every bit of stopping power to avoid one of those little monster car, Geo Metro drivers.

And the Jakes are pretty much a must, out west. We still use them all the time, but the hills is where they are a lifesaver. We had no idea how much we would use them, but they are great.

FWIW

God bless,

John