Engine Help In Lakeland, FL

mlh1936 · January 08, 2010, 06:39:41 AM

I wonder if anyone has heard of this kind of problem. I started my DD 8V92 yesterday. It was hard to start in Arcadia and here. After it started it ran about 2 minutes and the RPM started dropping. Then a large puff of smoke came from the exhaust and then the engine quit suddenly. After that happened I found that I had no electrical power to the dash. What could possibly cause that to happen? We arre camped in Lakeland so we aren't exactly stranded. If no one knows of an easy fix to this problem, do you guys know of a good diesel mech in Lakeland, Orlando or Tampa? I have a tow service policy, so I could have it towed to a shop if need be. Thanks.

gumpy · January 08, 2010, 06:46:23 AM

DDEC or mechanical?

What's the voltage on your batteries?

My guess is your batteries are dead and caused the shutdown solenoids to activate. I think it takes power to keep them closed. When you remove power, they open and allow air to the shutdown solenoid. The reason it took 3 minutes and slowly died, is because it was building up enough air to activate the shutdown.

This doesn't explain how you had enough power to start it in the first place.

Are you sure the rear remote switches are in the right position? Set to front start? Set to Run position?

Actually, I'm modifying this. I think your problem is the rear switches. If you leave the front/rear switch in the rear position, the front starter button won't work. You were not clear exactly what you mean by "no electrical power to the dash". Does that mean the front start button does nothing? or does it mean non of the gauges, lights or buzzers work?

Your shutdown is exactly what you will see if you leave the rear stop/run switch in the stop position. If you watch the shutdown cylinder, you'll see it slowly activate as the air pressure gets up to about 60 psi.

This could be caused by bad sensors on the safety shutdown system, too, or a true warning (low oil, low water, hot water, low oil pressure).

Also, explain you comment, "It was hard to start in Arcadia...". What do you mean by "hard to start".

rv_safetyman · January 08, 2010, 06:48:35 AM

Since your bus is an '87, it probably is not a DDEC. If it is, the problem sounds like low voltage to the DDEC ECM. The low voltage reaction of the DDEC sounds a lot like your description. That would also go along with the no power to the dash.

As is always the case, your first action should be to change the fuel filters. They could cause the symptoms you describe. If you do it yourself, be sure to fill the filters with fuel before you install them to avoid a loss of prime.

Again, if it would be a DDEC, you would want to check the fuses to the ECM.

Jim

Busted Knuckle · January 08, 2010, 06:52:36 AM

John Silver is right there by you he owns Central Florida Bus Repair in Lakeland.
Super nice guy was in Arcadia parked over by Ace and had the big jacked up golf cart that had signs on it for his shop.

FWIW I'd do like Jim suggested and ck/change fuel filters first.

BK

luvrbus · January 08, 2010, 06:55:05 AM

Change your filters and reprime if it starts and does the same change the fuel pump just went through this with my 8v92 installed a new pump at it is good too go.
If you do need a new fuel pump and it is a mechanical engine change over to the later DDEC style where you have 2 outlets 1 for each head better pump with more volume and pressure less than 200 bucks

good luck

gumpy · January 08, 2010, 06:56:14 AM

Quote from: rv_safetyman on January 08, 2010, 06:48:35 AM
Since your bus is an '87, it probably is not a DDEC. If it is, the problem sounds like low voltage to the DDEC ECM. The low voltage reaction of the DDEC sounds a lot like your description. That would also go along with the no power to the dash.

As is always the case, your first action should be to change the fuel filters. They could cause the symptoms you describe. If you do it yourself, be sure to fill the filters with fuel before you install them to avoid a loss of prime.

Again, if it would be a DDEC, you would want to check the fuses to the ECM.

Jim

Jim,

I agree with you analysis of the DDEC, but I don't agree with the fuel filters. The shutdown he describes is clearly an air pressure buildup causing a shutdown because the shutdown system is already set. Fuel filters won't do that, but DDEC will as will the safety shutdown and rear switches in a mechanical engine.

I don't recommend changing filters until the shutdown reason is isolated.

craig

And while I respect everything Luvrbus says, I have to disagree with him on changing the fuel pump in this case without more diagnosis. Fuel pump could cause the problem described but doesn't explain the dash electrical part. My money's on the air system shutdown due to some electrical problem (switches, DDEC, etc).

But time will tell who's analysis is correct here

mlh1936 · January 08, 2010, 06:56:38 AM

Thanks guys, it is not a DDEC. The batteries were low this morning so I have a charger on it. Will check again after a charge.

luvrbus · January 08, 2010, 07:01:23 AM

Gumpy, electrial problems or shut downs will stop the engine instantly he loses rpm then it shuts down he has a fuel problem.The hard to start is most likely the cooler weather in Fl

good luck

mlh1936 · January 08, 2010, 07:02:02 AM

By hard to start I mean it took 15-20 seconds turning over before it started running. Generally when the batteries are up it fires up almost immediately. Switches are in the right position in the rear.

white-eagle · January 08, 2010, 07:04:46 AM

as BK said, Central Florida Bus is in Lakeland. Coincidentally, so am i. Both of us can help, them by fixing the problem, me by helping on some other things if you need help.

866-2368726. i've had them do some work on our bus and i know others that also vouch for their good work, and reasonable rates.

Van · January 08, 2010, 07:12:00 AM

Just out of curi-viscosity

, is it possible there could be fuel some where between the tank and the motor that could be jelled up, I just spoke to Mike yesterday where he told me of the unusually cold temps down that way.Don't know if that area even has winter mix fuel yet, just a thought, but check the shut down solenoid once your Batt's are up to voltage any way. Just thinking out load. good luck

V

robertglines1 · January 08, 2010, 07:14:04 AM

please post results...learning minds want to know.

JackConrad · January 08, 2010, 07:20:25 AM

Fuel problems will not cause lack of electrical power at the dash. With no electrical power at the engine stop solenoid, engine will die a little slower as the air pressure is slowly building and slowly pushing the lever on the governor, slowly closing the fuel supply. I too recommend Central Coach. I have known John as well as his father Wynn for many years and have never heard any negative about their shop. Jack

mlh1936 · January 08, 2010, 07:39:18 AM

Thanks all you guys. Y'all are the best. Sure is comforting to have access to so many knowlegeable minds. Will let you know what fixes it.
Mal

luvrbus · January 08, 2010, 07:40:06 AM

Whats wrong with Trans Diesel in Lakeland, the first thing I check for loss of power and not cranking is the shut down the one on the left on top of the governor housing if it is clear of the shut down lever then start looking else where.

good luck