Oh my. . .

[kyle4501]

The biggest problem is arrogant ignorance of the unknown. Followed by denial & political posturing to transfer blame & responsibility.

The reason they haven't had training is because they assume the seller wouldn't mislead them & after all, if it was needed, there'd be a law . . . .

The fact that someone is reading this board shows some awareness of the unknown & an attempt to learn.

BTW, there aren't many RV driving courses available to choose from either. . . not to mention the expense . . .

I read the CDL drivers handbook when I got my bus - "HOLY CRAP, Just what have I gotten into?" was my first thought! Then I studied & after learning the systems, it isn't that big of a deal - just lots more pre-trip effort than if you took your car . . . . But, a much nicer ride . . . 

[Chuck Newman]

You guys are right on with this subject.  I had several motorhomes over the years including a DP before my bus.  Working on them helped me layout the bus systems fairly quickly as I knew what I liked and what worked.  I wish I had my CDL 16 years ago so I would have known about controlled braking when I experienced brake fade on the Ashland grade in a heavy class A gas rig with no supplemental braking. 

The one saving grace with the Monaco owner with "auto everything" is the park brakes will come on (to his surprise) when his pin hole leak finally becomes greater than the compressor output. 

Make no mistake, the biggest threat on the road are the four wheelers, as the truckers would say.

Chuck

[junkman42]

Not to start a roaring flame but from My on road experience driving all over the country working on commerical welding systems there is a large number of truckers that could certainly use some training.  Both the ones that do not speak english and others including the women I watch cut off drivers because They either do not care or do not know where the back of their rig really is.  Until recently I travled about 100k a year and it never ceases to amaze just how badly some proffesional drivers drive.  There is room for improvement on both sides of the aisle.  Just My take, John

[NJT 5573]

Hey Chuck,

You hit on one of my favorite safety issues. This does not apply to DD3 emergency chambers.

Thats the pin hole in the emergency diaphragm. Long before the Park Brake comes on, the spring brake starts dragging the shoes on the drum connected to the bad diaphragm. Loss of pressure allows the spring to slowly come uncoiled and actuate its brake shoes.

One brake shoe set out of 6, (Bus), or 10, (Truck), is hard to detect from the drivers seat, you frequently see smoke as your first warning sign that you are soon to be on fire.

The brake shoes will lightly drag the drum at first, but even a small emergency spring pressure will create a hot brake drum.  Long before the hole becomes large enough to overcome the compressor, the brake drum will be cherry red.

It's rare for a cherry red brake drum not to burn a bus to the ground. Trucks have alot more space around the brake drums for air to cool them compared to a bus. Unless it's real hot out, most truck drums will cool without burning the rig.

My understanding of FMSCA Rules in the old days is they would not approve spring emergency brakes for passenger vehicles because of the fire hazard. That is why Bendix invented the DD3. No spring relying on air to produce a burning bus fire hazard for passengers. Several years ago, FMSCA looked at all the data and decided spring brakes had a good enough safety record to be allowed on buses...

If your bus holds air with the park brake on, turn your bus off and then release the parking brake. There will be an initial loss of air to charge the air cans and release the brakes. That may take 5 lbs of air or so off the gauge. After that, the gauge must hold steady and not continue to lose air.

If it does continue to lose air, you need to look at your emergency brake diaphragms before you drive any farther.

I think if any of you have spring actuated emergency brakes, 10 years would be right out there at the extreme for some new piggybacks. Thats a long time for a chunk of rubber to provide such an important service.

[bevans6]

NJT, that is a real good piece of information right there, in a handy package.  Thank you.

Brian

[kyle4501]

Not to start a roaring flame but from My on road experience driving all over the country working on commerical welding systems there is a large number of truckers that could certainly use some training.  Both the ones that do not speak english and others including the women I watch cut off drivers because They either do not care or do not know where the back of their rig really is.  Until recently I travled about 100k a year and it never ceases to amaze just how badly some proffesional drivers drive.  There is room for improvement on both sides of the aisle.  Just My take, John

You aren't alone. There are steering wheel huggers in everything from mopeds to +80,000# vehicles.
I get nervous when ever someone says they put on their turn signal, count to 'x' & then change lanes. 
Why bother with having mirrors if you aren't going to use them?
It occurs to me that if you can't tell that the lane is clear, you shouldn't change lanes into it -OR- just maybe, you should not be driving.

This ain't the wild west . . . . or it shouldn't be . . . 



NJT, isn't that why some people have insurance - so they don't have to concern themselves with proper maintenance? 

[Van]

[Chuck Newman]

NJT5573,

What a great explanation of potential spring brake failures and resulting fires.  That by far is the most logical reason why (possibly) DD3 chambers came into vogue many years ago.  Particularly if the Feds required them on passenger vehicles.  It stands to reason, with the extra cost and plumbing of DD3's, a legal mandate would be the only reason manufacturers would spend the extra money to use them.  Regardless, I wish I could use 3030's instead of DD3 due to the price difference.  But I can't accommodate the longer 3030 chamber.  I'm picking up my DD3's from Capital Clutch in Sacramento this afternoon.  Don't know yet the monetary damage.  Hopefully, the rebuilds will last my use of the bus.

My reference to the Monaco was simply if he loses his brakes for any reason, the coach stops thereby not becoming a greater 15 ton hazard than he already is. 

Now I see why most of the brake fires I have seen on the news the last 3 years are newer buses, typically the J and G series.  Many thanks for the input.

Chuck