Emergency Help Needed

[HighTechRedneck]

Thanks to all. I was able to figure it out at 3 am n the morning. I was in So cal outside of Palm Springs.
I told my wife to post here, that I should be able to find help.
I will post what I found out later about how the 24/12 system works on my Flx Metro bus.

Glad to hear you are rolling again.  I look forward to hearing the whole story.

[buswarrior]

Gauges on used Transit buses are particularly untrustworthy and in my mind, useless indicators. They work, they don't work, they read wrong, all on the same coach.

Transits also may be found to shut down just about everything electrical if the engine isn't running.

As noted by Dr Dave, you wouldn't believe how some transits are wired, or have been modified by the PO fleet, for some purpose completely foreign to a busnut.

Start messing around via the internet with one of these babies....

Adarian, do you have a maintenance manual with at least the factory schematics in it?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Adarian]

Okay, so here is the story.
Went to Phoenix Az to pick up a 1988 Flxible Metro. I live in Fair Oaks ca.
Went via greyhound bus to Phoenix.
I arrive in Phoenix around 4:30 pm, I want to be on the road by 6:30. That gives me two hours to check over bus. My goal is to make it back to LA by midnight.
I ask the owner all the questions I could think of. The bus started, goes into gear, no strange noises. All fluids look good.
Lights work, turn signal and brake lights. Air tanks are holding air. Tires look good.

I pay the monies and get the title to the bus. I ask the owner about the registration and it is not current. And no temp can be gotten as it is late in the day.
I has asked before going was the bus titled and registered? He said yes. What was said via email and truth are now different. I now want to make it back to California  as fast as possible and avoid getting pulled over in Arizona. Two hours to the Cal/AZ border.
It gets dark and I can't see the road. I stop at a truck stop to get fuel and I check the headlights, they are very dim. I purchase two new headlights and I am off again, now that i am able to see and I can also avoid any unwanted attention.

I make it to Indio Ca and decide to stop and rest. It is late and I am not making progress.
I get up the next morning to be on the road by 6:30 am.
Go out to start the bus and it will not start. I push the start button and nothing. I check to see if the bus is in neutral and the brake is set and so forth and I get nothing when I push the engine start button.
The air starter air tank is reading 110, so I know I have plenty of air.
I call the previous owner and he says that it should start.

I call roadside service through my insurance and they send out someone that has no clue.
he wants to jump start it. Finds the battery cables are loose and a few corroded connections.
removes batteries to check water level.
Install everything and go to start bus and now nothing is happening, no buzzer, no lights no nothing.

So he thinks the batteries are no good.
So okay, I call progressive and they wan to tow it to a shop.
One problem no shops are open. So now Progressive will not tow it.

Okay so I say. let me check out a few things.
I take the battery cables off and re-install them and still nothing.

But I am looking at the set up and I am trying to figure out how this is a 12/24 volt system?
I have 4 cables and 4 batteries. Each cable has two battery connection, giving me 8 battery post attachment in all.

I also have a 24 to 12 volt converter with  a 24 volt in wire, a 12 volt out wire and a ground.

So, I end up calling a mechanic, he comes out and they look as confused as me about how is this  12/24 volt system.
They make it a 24 volt system. Bus starts and I am off after paying them.

I get about 20 miles down the road and I am smelling battery acid. The 24 volt gauge is showing 32 volts.

I am able to pull off and stop next to a chevron. I pull the battery tray and  one battery is smoking. I start pouring water on it to cool it off and to wash the acid off the top.

I pull off the caps and the battery is now bone dry.
I fill with water and I am thinking these cables are still not hooked up correctly.
It is now 5pm. At 7 pm my brother calls me and says he will come out and help. He is about 90 miles out.
He arrives at 9:30.
We are having a discussion about hooking up batteries and 12/24 volt system.
We start to look at the battery disconnect switch and the voltage regulator and the wiring schematic in the box.
The disconnect switch has a bat 1, bat 2 and common terminals.
There are some 3 12v fuses and a 24v fuse.
We are tracing wires back and forth,
Looking at the disconnect switch,
One set of cables (+) from the batteries goes to the bat 1 terminal. The other set  (-) goes to the bat 2 terminal. The common terminal has a positive cable going back to the positive terminal of another battery.

We are thinking those cables don't make a complete circuit as it.


To make a long story short, the 24 v takes place in the voltage regulator. Not at the batteries.
At 3 am we connect the batteries back up correctly. Bus starts and I am off. No more problems the rest of the way.

What cause the original no start, I still don't know.

For my first bus , it was truly an adventure. But I now truly understand something that I may not have never understood before.

It makes for a good riddle. How do you make a 12/24 volt system with 4 batteries and 4 battery cables. each cable has two battery post connections.

[JackConrad]

Just a guess, but I saw a Gillig that used a series/parallel Relay.  This switch combined the batteries for 24 volt to start and then back to 12 volts for all lighting (at least, I think that is how it worked?)  Jack

[DaveG]

Ah yes, the old 12V system with 24V start...and the series/parallel switch...glad those days are over!

[Barn Owl]

Interesting adventure, thanks for sharing.

[Nusa]

Interesting. But I don't understand why one would need 24V for starting when you have an air starter?

[Hartley]

Interesting. But I don't understand why one would need 24V for starting when you have an air starter?

It's a "Transit Bus" all or most are 24 volts due to the large a/c system loads.

[Adarian]

the 24v systems runs the majority of the electronics. Even the solenoids that control fuel shut off I think and the relay for the air starter. The 12v runs the headlights, brake lights and etc.
The bus doesn't have AC.

[Busted Knuckle]

the 24v systems runs the majority of the electronics. Even the solenoids that control fuel shut off I think and the relay for the air starter. The 12v runs the headlights, brake lights and etc.
The bus doesn't have AC.

Adrian,
First off welcome to the madness of bus ownership.
Second glad to hear that you were able to get-r-going & home!
Third did you say the bus doesn't have A/C?
Is that doesn't have as in never had? Had but doesn't work? Or  had but already removed?

I find it hard to picture ANY bus with out A/C as these things get hot inside since they are like 35'- to-45' ovens when out in the sun.

Good luck, enjoy and keep us posted as things progress!
  BK 

[JackConrad]

Interesting. But I don't understand why one would need 24V for starting when you have an air starter?

Air starter requires electricity to open the solenoid valve that allows the air to flow from the air tank to the engine.  Jack

[Adarian]

the 24v systems runs the majority of the electronics. Even the solenoids that control fuel shut off I think and the relay for the air starter. The 12v runs the headlights, brake lights and etc.
The bus doesn't have AC.

Adrian,
First off welcome to the madness of bus ownership.
Second glad to hear that you were able to get-r-going & home!
Third did you say the bus doesn't have A/C?
Is that doesn't have as in never had? Had but doesn't work? Or  had but already removed?

I find it hard to picture ANY bus with out A/C as these things get hot inside since they are like 35'- to-45' ovens when out in the sun.

Good luck, enjoy and keep us posted as things progress!
  BK 

It never had AC.

[buswarrior]

No A/C and built in 1988, must have belonged to a much more northern fleet that was saving some money?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Adarian]

That is exactly how it is wired.
Also my story continues in another post involving a no start.
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=13263.0

[Adarian]

No A/C and built in 1988, must have belonged to a much more northern fleet that was saving some money?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

It came from Portland Oregon, Tri-Met. Bus number 500,  JD099390