Major engine problem!

[steve5B]

  Good evening,

  I don't know where to start.  First, several months ago I had fuel in the oil, spent several thousands of dollars at the local DD

  dealer to find the leak and replaced anything in the engine that needed to be replaced. Today for the first time since December

after putting new 8d's'  in I fired her up and low and behold raw fuel and oil flowed like a river out of , what looks like the seal on

the crank .  I shut it down right away.  My question is, has the fuel that filled the engine damaged the seal or has the seal

failed from not being run?  How hard is it to fix, and does it need to go back to the DD Dealer?  When Chaz had his engine

problems  he mentioned about throwing in the towel. I can understand where he was comming from.


Steve 5B.....

[HighTechRedneck]

Steve, I sure feel for you.  If anything happened to my bus that required thousands of dollars to fix, it would instantly become a park model or a steel sculpture. 

I think the bigger question is, after paying a DD shop thousands to fix the fuel in the oil problem, why is fuel flowing out of the crank case?  So maybe the crankshaft seal did go bad, but if anything other than oil is coming out of it, there is another problem somewhere.  And if the DD shop pronounced the "fuel in the oil" problem fixed after all that work they did on it, then I wouldn't be shy about approaching their manager and saying "I thought you guys fixed this!"

[luvrbus]

Steve, does the engine have fuel in the oil , only oil should come from the seal that is your oil pump seal. Are you the one that has a 8v92 N/A engine if so does it have a viaration damper on the front give us a little more info on the engine you have.   good luck 
sorry HT we must have posted about the same time

[steve5B]

  Luvrbus, yes it's an 8v-92 NA . I put my hand below the engine when it was running be for I shut it off and you could tell it was

  oil and fuel because the smell was that of the winter  fuel additive that I put in.  As for the damper I not to sure what your

  talking about.  Where it's flowing is right behind the 2-3 grove pulley for the fans above the engine.  Hope this helps!

  Steve 5B....

[luvrbus]

Steve,  some use the term harmonic balance does that work , if you have one it will be 12 inches around and about 2 inches thick and should be between the oil pump and the pulleys.     good luck

[NJT5047]

That's a lot of fuel getting into the oil pan. 
Maybe you could post a synopsis of what DD actually replaced?
A broken jumper, or bad fuel pump could cause such fuel flow.  These are both easy items to replace.
Does the engine run on al 8 cylinders?  If not, you may have a bad injector.  A laser temp gun will confirm which cylinders are not running...if any.   A bad injector would also create a nasty exhaust when warmed up.
I'm with Hightech on this....your friendly DD shop should be apprised of the situation and they 'should' be rapidly moving on with warranty repairs.   However, in today's market, you may have waited too long.
They probably have some sort of time limit on warranty repairs.   Alerting them to the mileage might help.   
The source of that much fuel getting into the oil should be easy (relatively speaking) to locate. 
If you can pull the valve covers, you may see 'fuel tracking' near one of the jumpers.  If DD replaced a jumper, they may have left something loose, or cracked a jumper. 
I don't see why you couldn't apply air pressure to the fuel system and sit back and listen.  You'll probably hear the leak.   About 30 regulated lbs might do it.  Although, the fuel pump can make upwards to 60 lbs. of pressure.
The jumpers between the injectors must be torqued when installing.  They are easily damaged by poor mechanics.   And, they dump fuel directly into the oil pan...as could a bad fuel pump. 
Block the return line to get more definitive results. 
Check your billing and see what specific items were replaced, and look at those parts first.  Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll attend to the problem.  Hope so. 
BTW, removing the valve covers is easy....ummm maybe not on an MC5? 
It really doesn't matter what you call the big pully that drives the fans....it shouldn't leak fuel.   It will leak if fuel or oil covers the seal.  Such crankcase levels are abnormal.  The leak will likely stop when oil pan levels are returned to normal.   The oil is above the full mark on the dipstick?  Is it possible that the DD dealer repaired the problem but left the oil pan and fuel mixture in the pan?  Dumber things have happened.
Good luck!  A good auto mechanic could deal with a bad fuel pump or jumper...if they have access to a service manual.   Jumpers must be carefully threaded on and torqued.  Overtorque damages the fitting.  Undertorque loosens up and fill the engine with fuel.   
Jumper special torque wrench adaptors are avail from Matco, Snap-On, and I'm sure other sources.

JR

[luvrbus]

Steve, I ask about the damper only because if oil is leaking in front of the damper and behind the pulley I  can tell you how to fix that problem.
If you have a pan full of fuel then that is coming from above in the head area the fuel pump will leak to the outside.
I hope your dealer takes care of you but like NJT states most are 90 days labor and 1 year parts               good luck   

[John316]

I agree, your DD shop should get you fixed up. Remember, even though you are frustrated, it usually helps to approach it from a "I would love it if you all would help me." Attitude, and not a "get out here this instant, or I will be mad." Our local DD guys are great to work with. They do warranty on our bus no problem.

God bless,

John

[steve5B]

  NTJ5047,

   Thanks for your imput, the pully that I mentioned is at the bottom of the engine about 6'' across and has belts that runs the

    compressor for the over the road AC and radiator fans.  Why would it be coming out of that ares?


    Steve 5B..

[gumpy]

 NTJ5047,

  Thanks for your imput, the pully that I mentioned is at the bottom of the engine about 6'' across and has belts that runs the

   compressor for the over the road AC and radiator fans.  Why would it be coming out of that ares?


   Steve 5B..

JR pretty much answered that question.

Are you sure it's coming out of the seal, and not running down from the to of the engine?

You still haven't indicated what the level is on your dipstick.

[steve5B]

 

    Craig,

   It's about an 8th of an inch above the full mark.  It  has a shallow pan and holds only 20 qts.  Top of the engine looks like it's

   brand new.  Engine was rebuilt several years back and has only 24,486 miles on it from what the hub states.


  Steve 5B.....

[NJT5047]

Well.  1/8" overfilled isn't quite as bad as I would'a thought. 
I recommend cleaning off all the exterior oil residue with degreaser and start the engine and visualize where, exactly, the leak is originating.
Gump may have called it.  You may have an external oil or fuel leak that's running down onto the harmonic balancer (pully that drives the AC and engine cooling fans). 
Are you certain that you have the correct dipstick?  The oil level should be at least an inch below the pan mounting flange.
You may also just have a bad crank seal.   Or a worn harmonic balancer that's cutting up your seals.  Stuff happens.    Some versions of crank seals are teflon coated and installed dry.  This is really a difficult concept for some mechanics to grasp.  Lubing teflon seal lips result in poor 'seating' and produce premature leaks.
Your engine is a RH rotation engine.  There are LH rotation seals.  I'll assume that since you've driven approx 24K trouble free miles that the seal is correct?   
Check the fuel pump lines and the bottom of the fuel pump.  There are 'clocked' bleed holes in the fuel pump body that allow leaving the lowest positioned hole open.  Occasionally some genius will install plugs in all of the threaded holes, thus blocking a route for fuel to get out of the pump body if the seal leaks. 
Any leak above the harmonic balancer would likely run down...around..etc and end up on the rear of the engine. 
Clean the engine and verify where the leak originates.   
If you change the oil, be careful and don't overfill the pan.  Fill the oil filter prior to install, and fill the pan with oil to bring it up almost to the dipstick full mark and quit.  If you fire the engine up, don't add any oil until the engine completely cools down.  Otherwise, you'll overfill it.   
Be careful working around the fan drive belt when the engine's running!!!
May want to get someone familiar with the smell of used diesel engine oil to evaluate whether or not you actually have fuel in your oil.  Diesel oil stinks.  If you do have fuel getting into the engine...it isn't a huge leak. Still, the potential for damage if it does have fuel contamination is great.   If you have a major truck shop nearby you could have an oil sample tested for any contaminant.   
One other thought is to verify that the harmonic balancer isn't loose on the crankshaft.  That'll cause an oil leak at the crank seal or between the crank and balancer if it's really loose.   

Good luck!  JR

[johns4104s]

Steve,

If its fuel you should be able to smell it on the dip stick. I once reused the overhead lines on my 671. Not pretty they leaked fuel into the top of the head and down into the pan. DD says once you loosen undo them you must always go back with new. DD also insits that when you rebuild a motor you always go back with a new harmonic balancer. Here Again I did not and 5000 miles down the road the harmonic balancer vibrated apart . The vibration sheared three of the 4 bolts holding the tranny to the engine. What a mess.

John