Now, should I bite the bullet and spend $$$ and get a SilverLeaf???

John316 · May 02, 2009, 06:42:32 PM

I am looking at a silverleaf system for the drive train.

First off, is it worth it? What do you all use, and what do you all like best? Which system, and how do you all see the information that it is displaying? What about some of their other products like their exact fuel tank monitor, does it work with the MCI aux tank?

I have kind of ruled out their glass dash. The price is a little out of my budget!!!

What do you all think?

Thanks in advance.

God bless,

John

rv_safetyman · May 02, 2009, 07:24:04 PM

Hi John. Thanks for starting a new thread. Would it be possible for you to add the word SilverLeaf to the title so others can find it?

This thread: http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=11816.0 morphed into a discussion about SilverLeaf and John is keeping us honest.

In the other thread you asked how easy it was to hook up. Any of the VMS products simply plug into the data port (either 6 pin or 9 pin) that you will find in the dash area of buses with electronic engines (does not work with mechanical engines).

I would love to sell you one of the dedicated VMS dashes including the Glass Dash. However, for $400 you can have one heck of an electronic dash that you can customize to your heart's content. For example, I use four odometers (you can have more if you need them). You can see a couple of versions of my dash at: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/Silverleaf3.htm.

You mentioned the fuel tank monitor and they also have holding tank monitors that work with pressure transducers. Each of those sensors has to talk to a communication box that can be a bit pricey. That system will only talk to the VMS products and not the VMSpc.

However, I use one of my odometers as a fuel gauge. My Aqua Hot and generator come off a different fuel tank. Thus my engine is the only user of the main tank. The odometer has a gallons used display (along with MPG). When that gauge says that I have used 80 gallons for example, I will put in 80 gallons plus or minus 2 gallons (varies with fill rate and how I filled last time). Sometimes I am low and sometimes high, but it is very close. Makes a great fuel gauge. Just reset at each fill up. There is a distance to empty gauge you can create, but I don't use that gauge.

I heard Martin Perlot's (owner of SilverLeaf) first presentation in Ogden Utah at an FMCA rally many years ago. I swore then that I would own one. Now I sell them. As soon as I got my electronic Series 60, I ordered one. I considered it a toy for the first few miles I drove the bus and now I am completely lost if I don't have it up an running. Almost never use my other gauges (except air pressure)

Jim

blue_goose · May 03, 2009, 04:44:45 AM

I wouldn't be without one. As soon as I put the electronic engine in my bus I bought the Silverleaf. It has paid for itself in the fuel that it saves by telling you how much better you are doing by running slower.
Jack

ArtGill · May 03, 2009, 05:58:53 AM

What is involved and where do I get a monitor to install in my dash? Can I share with a GPS program? Maybe two monitors with a computer card that will drive two monitors? So many questions for a future project. Thanks
Art

belfert · May 03, 2009, 06:34:55 AM

Jim Shephard has pictures somewhere of Silverleaf VMSpc and a GPS program sharing the same monitor.

There are a lot of LCD monitors 12" and under that should fit in a dash. The question is do they have enough resolution and are they readable?

rv_safetyman · May 03, 2009, 07:29:02 AM

Hi Art. Good questions. You can put the laptop on the dash and run that way. As I mentioned previously, there is a risk that the law might take exception.

You can run a *COMPUTER BASED* GPS system (Street Atlas, for example) on the same screen as the SilverLeaf VMSpc (see on the link posted earlier in this thread). You can't run a video based GPS system on computer monitor (Yes, I know that the techies have a way to do that, but for most folks it is easier to say that you can't do it). In a similiar fashion, you can't run the SilverLeaf on a video monitor.

I use a 15 inch computer monitor mounted in front of me over the windshield. These monitors have a 4 screw mounting system on the back that can be used to fabricate a mounting bracket (some small LCD television wall brackets might work).

Again, the system will not work with a mechanical engine. It has to be an electronic diesel engine that uses J1708 communciation protocol (virtually all electronic diesel engines that would be in our buses).

Jim

belfert · May 03, 2009, 07:42:24 AM

All production motorhomes with TVs visible by the driver have ignition lockouts. I believe there are laws against drivers viewing TVs.

Do you think there is a chance your monitor could be interpreted as a law violation? The real trick is never be stopped by law enforcement I guess. I have never been stopped by law enforcement although they have helped when I was on the shoulder with problems.

I'm not planning on laws stopping me from using Silverleaf VMSpc at some point.

rv_safetyman · May 03, 2009, 02:21:27 PM

Brian, if there was a risk, it was when I had the laptop on the dash. Now that it is a monitor (no computer access) with legitimate gauges and GPS, I think my risk is almost nil.

Worse case, if they attempted to give me a ticket, I would ask to read the specific statute/code/law he was citing. I would be very careful to be polite and ask in the sense that I wanted to find out more about the situation. If they did give me a ticket, I would sign it and add the words "signed under protest". The problem is that to defend yourself, you would need to return to the jurisdiction and that might not be worth it.

I really don't think it would come to a ticket unless you ran across that one law enforcement officer you have nightmares about.

Jim

ktmossman · May 03, 2009, 04:56:51 PM

My contemplation would be a "shuttle" computer inside the dash cabinetry (slide-out tray with a small keyboard/mouse), connected through a multi-switch to a small LCD monitor embedded in the dash. This would allow the "computer" to be completely concealed. All that would be visible would be the LCD monitor embedded in the dash. You could then run pretty much any video feed (cameras, GPS, etc.) through the multi-switch to the LCD. If you wanted to get more complex, they make LCD monitors with touch-screen capability, or even touch screens that have the multi-select built in with buttons in the monitor casing. All depends on how much money you want to spend.

rv_safetyman · May 03, 2009, 07:28:21 PM

ktmossman, I am not sure how you would mix VGA and video into a monitor. For sure the VMSpc does not have a video output and is not touch screen capable.

I think you could go with a computer monitor and a video to VGA converter (I do that for my backup monitor).

This is an area where I have very marginal knowledge, so help me to understand how to mix video and VGA (I am asking to learn, not to be a smart donkey).

Jim

ktmossman · May 04, 2009, 06:09:10 AM

It all depends on the money you want to spend. (NOTE: I have never done this in a bus. So, that aspect is purely theoretical.) The last auditorium install I did, I installed this Kramer scaler:

http://www.kramerelectronics.com/indexes/item.asp?desc=445

That one will allow 7 inputs, but might not be the most appropriate for a more confined installation. However, it does have with a remote control. It also does the up-conversion which adds to the price. There are many different switches out there that will handle multiple input formats.

http://www.kramerelectronics.com/products/?group=2&subgroup=32

Anyway, it should give you an idea on the kinds of things available.

John316 · May 04, 2009, 06:17:11 AM

Thanks a lot guys. This gives me something to think about. I really appreciate it.

Jim, if we do get one, we will let you know.

God bless,

John

belfert · May 04, 2009, 08:40:21 AM

I was doing a little research on this last night. I found car PCs that will run on 12 volt. I think some will even run on 24 volts. Total cost I figured at just over $1,000 including VMSpc.

Now, a laptop with VMSpc would be a little more versatile, but it wouldn't be fully integrated and give sort of the "glass dash" look.

MattC · May 04, 2009, 10:45:57 AM

Quote from: belfert on May 04, 2009, 08:40:21 AM
I was doing a little research on this last night. I found car PCs that will run on 12 volt. I think some will even run on 24 volts. Total cost I figured at just over $1,000 including VMSpc.

Now, a laptop with VMSpc would be a little more versatile, but it wouldn't be fully integrated and give sort of the "glass dash" look.

For information's sake, which PC's? That might solve some of my issues.

Thanks!

Matt

JohnEd · May 04, 2009, 11:17:44 AM

Matt,

The tech spec for the LapTop is driven by the requirement of the software you will be using. That can drive you nuts figuring that out. My advice is go with the biggest screen you can afford, highest resolution, streaming video capable so it will handle video movie discs and online YouTube type stuff AND a tournament assortment of inputs from TV to GPS to etc. The latest and greatest will set you back a couple grand but consider used with the state of the art a couple years ago. Way cheaper and way stronger than you are liable to need....ever. You need a techie to lead you thru that choice....I ain't him. Maybe you know somebody or someone on here can help.

HTH,

John