Things newbies should be aware of when attending a bus rally/ getting stuck

[Tenor]

1.  Weather Men are not to be trusted!
2.  14 hours of rain will turn the most solid ground into something less than solid!
3.  You can be 6 inches from the pavement and be stuck!
4.  Chains/towstraps should always be carried. (I recommend 2! - see point 7)
5.  Know how to let the air out of your tag axle/bogie if you have them to get better traction.
6.  If your drive wheels start to spin - STOP RIGHT THERE!
7.  2 4WD full size trucks can pull out a 40ft bus if you don't bury it to the axles (see point 6).  Saw that done twice, today, and did it myself too.

Our rally REALLY got rained on and we had to pull out 7 coaches!  Only 1 needed a wrecker, and he may have been able to get out if he had hooked up to a pickup first to assist, but he was the first to try to move.  No injuries to people or coaches!

Some other observations -

If you really like to park on grass, don't hesitate to use some knobbier drive tires.  One 35ft Flx VL drove right through the same grass that stopped everyone else!  Either that, or Flxibles float! 

Also, if you like to "camp" vs. resort stay, always consider how much weight you are putting in your coach if you are building it yourself.  A 45 ft Prevost with granite countertops is beautiful - but it might not come out of the same location as a 35 ft self converted MCI!  I saw that happen today too.  They were parked side by side, and the MCI was one of the few that did not need a tow. 

I do not mean any disrespect to anyone's bus, or to their choices in style.  I think that new people (ME INCLUDED!) really need to think through these things as they build and then USE their bus.  I'd like to thank Mike Muller, Chris (GM BUSGUY), and Tim (didn't get his last name) for helping me and many others out of the muck

Glenn

[buswarrior]

Excellent topic!

First thought: Buses belong on improved surfaces, be very wary to go off the asphalt in the first place.

On the ground, good practice to park on a 3/4 inch by 2' by 2' plywood board under each corner...

With another set to put in front of that set, to walk yourself out of the sudden bog. As long as you didn't use them all up leveling the coach.... One at the front door, a couple under your chair, all kinds of uses to flatten your world in their day job...

And park expecting to have to go straight out. Turning in the slop of a damp grassy field is what traps the ones who did get moving initially... parking the rally perpendicular to the road may look really neat but will be the devil if it goes soft. On the angle parking means less turning and a safer terminal velocity to escape.

Great that you saw what happens if you spin the tires... DON'T SPIN THE TIRES!!!

Spinning coach tires digs holes that require expensive tow trucks. Period.

This ain't your father's Oldsmobile, that coach isn't the General Lee, and you ain't Burt Reynolds.

Nylon recovery straps for your bus, NO CHAINS! You can't control the other knob driving the recovery vehicle who is trying to yank parts off your coach. This is not the clean and jerk.

As long as the coach driver doesn't do something stupid beforehand...a single 4x4 and a recovery strap will recover your coach quite nicely.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Gary '79 5C]

BW,
I agree that I am much better off with tires on pavement. Life can be soo much more boring that way. I do have a question, What strength straps do you recommend for towing. I would not wish to be around one that breaks and whips.

Thanks & Happy Monday

Gary

[JackConrad]

BW,
I agree that I am much better off with tires on pavement. Life can be soo much more boring that way. I do have a question, What strength straps do you recommend for towing. I would not wish to be around one that breaks and whips.
Thanks & Happy Monday
Gary

We carry a 40,000 lb. snatch strap (that was the heaviest rated strap we could find), doubled it it is 80,000 lb.  Jack

[edroelle]

Glenn is generous.  I think he hit all the critical factors.  (For those wondering, my wife's husband had the bus needing the tow truck and winch.)

Ed Roelle

[bobofthenorth]

We backed out of a campground east of Regina yesterday because the road in looked like it was about to erupt in frost boils.  Even where we are now in an old established campground on the edge of Regina we are sitting on 2' square pads that have sunk about 2" into the ground.  And these sites are old as dirt - I worked here when I was still in high school!  I put this thing on the skid pan once and it wasn't pretty.  Fortunately that time I had a 1-1/2 yard Fiat loader with forks to pull it out with but we aren't always that lucky.

[Lonnie time to go]

Glen
   Just wanted to say i was very glad to meet you.  Sorry the rain wouldn't stay away long enough to meet some of the other busnuts that where there . Wow that rain just didn't want to stop lol.

[Tenor]

Lonie,
It was a pleasure to meet you as well.  We need to get that 4905 out and on the road!

Glenn

[Gary '79 5C]

We carry a 40,000 lb. snatch strap (that was the heaviest rated strap we could find), doubled it it is 80,000 lb.

Jack,

I was planning to "tow" the bus, rather not "lift" the vehicle...But I like your conservative natural. If you double this strap, I guess it would share the load, rather distribute the load over the two lengths. My reasoning is that it would place additional pressure at the doubled center of the strap, reducing the 80,000 lb. But my ever increasingly feable mind is not embracing this statics problem.
I have a credit at Harbor Frieght so this may be the item to cash this "chit" .

Thanks,
Gary

[Tenor]

I intentionally left the discussion about chains vs. straps alone.  Many people are more comfortable with one or the other.  Since my MCI 7 seems to be missing it's tow hooks, a chain around the pass side axle/radius rods to the driver's side axle/radius rod makes a very secure location to attach a tow strap.  Many ways to skin a cat!  The result is always the same - the cat is toast!    It's just important to have the tools with you!

Glenn

[buswarrior]

For those who don't know, the trouble with using only a chain as your tow material, is that a chain is solid, in that there is no stretch. Every jerk will be absolute, harsh and much stronger than you realize.

Using a piece of chain looped around solid points and hooked to itself on each vehicle to establish your fastening points and running the strap between them is an excellent strategy in my book for spreading the forces involved.

Using just a chain, unless both the tow vehicle driver and coach driver are EXTREMELY gentle, trustworthy, experienced in these matters and both have a vested interest in not breaking things... as the chain is drawn up, both drivers must allow no slack during the pull, or as you come unstuck, or as you each try to stop once clear... there will be a dynamic jerk applied to wherever you have attached the chain that is measured in multiples of the weight of the vehicles involved. You may easily rip the bumper off, dislodge your suspension geometry, break a suspension point, break the hitch, twist the frame that the tow hook is attached to, etc etc etc

There will not be a fastening point on the bus that has been designed to have a 5000 lb pick up truck jerking against it with a chain, never mind the chain involved being intended to be jerked like that.

Grade70 transport chain is only rated to hold 5000 lbs, there is no rating for a clean and jerk....

You also need to know how to use the hooks on a chain, typically the hooks go back to the chain, a loop of chain goes around something. You do not use the hook to grab your fastening point, unless it has been designed to interact with that style of hook.

Including a length of recovery strap between the vehicles softens the dynamics, and allows for the pressures to be applied gradually to the fastening points, if you know what I'm saying.

The longer the strap(s) the more room to get it stopped once free without the panic of collision that a short tow fastener brings on.

Straps are VERY forgiving to inexperience and carelessness. Chains are NOT.

happy coaching!
buswarrior