Need a VS2-8

[Christyhicks]

So, according to the local Guru, I should be looking for one of the VS2-8 trannys.  Anyone know of a good one we can get our hands on?  Thanks for your help, Christy Hicks

[TomC]

If you're changing the trans, why not go with the more modern V730?  Then you get one more shift split.  What I mean is the VS2-8 is a two speed with an input overdrive unit.  So the shifting is 1st torque converter, 2nd lockup, ovedrive lockup.  And no control over the gears (usually just has a R-N-D toggle switch for a shifter).  But with the V730 you get 1st torque converter, 2nd torque converter, 2nd lockup, 3rd lockup.  My shifter is like a cars with R-N-3-2-1.  So I can pull it to 2nd to hold down a hill, or even into 1st where I can get torque converter lockup over 15mph.  Can't do that with the VS2-8, which also hasn't been made in many years, and I'd be surprised if any were still in commercial service.  But the V730 and its' electronic cousin the V731 are still being used in great numbers today.  But-you'll do it your way.  Good Luck, TomC

[Buffalo SpaceShip]

I agree with Tom. I've driven both, and prefer the V-730. Christy, don't you already have this trans. in your coach? I know you've been having shifter issues... but you can fix those.

Now, The VS2-8 is often noted for being easy on the revs. (and MPG) and it's true. The OD on it is huge. BUT, it's a "flats-only" setup and will get bogged down climbing hills of any size. Going down those same hills could kill you if you don't have a Jake on it, because the thing upshifts at a specific rpm (although I've heard you can defeat this). I can point you to a LOT of info on both trannies... and the "old guards" that swear by their Spicers (which I still LOVE to drive, BTW). Each has its pros and cons to be sure.

But I really think the V-730 is the better auto tranny... more modern and more bulletproof. Just get used to driving it slower and enjoy the scenery.

Tom... are you sure that first locks up?? I thought the V-730 only locks up in 2nd and 3rd. Boy I wish it would lockup whilst climbing up Vail Pass & Ike Tunnel at 20mph in first. Heat city.

Brian Brown
4108-216
4106-1175 (trying to part with her)
Longmont, CO

[Christyhicks]

Our transmission is a VH, which I'm told will self-destruct w/the hp & torque of an 8v71 engine.  We do not have a shifter at all, so thought with the VS2-8, we could do a simle swap.  This is for TempBus, who only weighs 27,000 lbs and in the last 5000 miles so far, it has handled every hill we've hit pretty well, and will run 70+ mph on the flats. 

If the VH does this well, wouldn't the VS2-8 be simliar?   We know the VH has been there for 5000 miles, and if the engine indeed has the 20,000 miles as we were told (and she sure acts like this is true), it's likely been there for those 20,000 miles also.  We know the bus was converted in 1988 by Sundance coach, but we don't know at this time whether the transmission was installed then, or if  it was changed when the engine was, or what. 

Our reverse problem is likely a bad switch or solenoid, but likely not the transmission, from what we've been told. 

On our dash we have a switch for forward, neutral, or reverse.  That toggle switch energizes solenoids, which shift via an air cylinder.  Larry swears that he saw a little smoke escape that switch the first time it acted up, and it is only done it like twice since, so we're going to start with a new toggle switch.  The next time it does it, we'll do a little trouble shooting and see whether we've got a bad solenoid or dirty air cylinder.  Larry thinks it just wasn't traveling far enough, but we were so hot and tired we didn't trouble shoot it, and then the next morning, it hit every single time, wouldn't ya know!

I understand that you can add another solenoid to the system to downshift the VS2-8 when desired.  Please keep the info coming and the debate happening, but at this point, I doubt we want to run a cable all the way to the front and install a shifter and such, HOWEVER, nothing is cast in stone at this point.  Christy

[Buffalo SpaceShip]

Christy, are you SURE you have a VH? Who told you this? That's an antiquated transit tranny, 2 speeds. I have a hard time believing someone would shoehorn one of those relics in your conversion and then sell it to you as a V730. The ad for your bus states as such: http://www.gmbusguy.com/1966pd4107.htm

Take a pic of your tranny and post it here, please, so we can help you get to the bottom of this.

Brian Brown
4108-216

[TomC]

Christy- you can run a cable for the shifter on a V730, but you can also use a Bennet elec shifter that would still involve running the multi wire cable, but that's alot easier since the cable should be relatively straight, compared to what you could do with a multi wire cable.

Brian- on the V730, you can get 1st lock up on decelleration-for jake going down a steep hill when the shifter is in 1st.  I have an air throttle with an air operated transmission throttle sensor.  I don't know if this is just a flook with my trans, but when I'm going up a long grade, I manually shift to 2nd (at about 45), then when it slows more and the trans slips into torque converter (can feel it) I can then pull it down to 1st where it revvs up towards the governor.  When it is wound out pretty good, I just slowly pull up on the go pedal about an inch and you can feel it "bump" into torque converter again.  If that doesn't work on yours, what I'm going to do is put a dump solenoid inline with the throttle sensor.  So long as you can make the transmission think it is in idle position, it will lock up the torque converter, but only when the gear shift is in 1st.  Now if you have a cable operated throttle sensor, I don't know quite what to do then-maybe readjust it so it be a little looser so you would get lockup like I can.  Good Luck, TomC

[Dallas]

Christy, are you SURE you have a VH? Who told you this? That's an antiquated transit tranny, 2 speeds. I have a hard time believing someone would shoehorn one of those relics in your conversion and then sell it to you as a V730. The ad for your bus states as such: http://www.gmbusguy.com/1966pd4107.htm

Take a pic of your tranny and post it here, please, so we can help you get to the bottom of this.

Brian Brown
4108-216

Brian,
Thats a great idea.
I'm the one that advised her to replace the VH with a VS since it's a very easy swap, and the VH is only rated for 198HP @ 700Ftlbs of torque.
I was going by what she stated was on the ID plate on the transmission, and by the fact that she only has FNR on her toggle.
The VS is capable of being changed to a selectable transmission without too much trouble.
If it truly is a VH she has a disaster waiting to happen as it could self destruct at an extremely inconvenient time.
I have hopes that it's a V730, but if it isn't, the easy swap would be a VS2-8. Preferrably with the 0.72 OD and not the 0.60 OD.
It will probably require an extra oil to air cooling system, but since she's in the HVAC business, that shouldn't be hard to accomplish.
Besides, the VS is a very user friendly transmission and can be repaired by most transmission shops and is pretty much bullet proof. The V730 is a bit more complicated and not nearly as forgiving.
Parts for VS trans. are still available off the shelf and not that hard to find. Besides, there are lots of VS transmissions laying around for low prices.

Dallas

[Buffalo SpaceShip]

I manually shift to 2nd (at about 45), then when it slows more and the trans slips into torque converter (can feel it) I can then pull it down to 1st where it revvs up towards the governor.  When it is wound out pretty good, I just slowly pull up on the go pedal about an inch and you can feel it "bump" into torque converter again. 

Tom, now that you mention it, I'm almost positive I had this happen to me the second time I took the Buff down into Palo Duro Canyon in TX... 10% grade and major switchbacks. The first time I did it, I was in 1st selected and had the Jake going and still had to brake at every corner. The second time, though, I had shifted from second to first and never had to touch the brake again. It was awesome. It must have been locked up!

I'll try your advice next time I'm going up a grade. It would be great indeed if we could get these things to positively lockup via a solenoid or something.  Thanks for the tips!

Besides, the VS is a very user friendly transmission and can be repaired by most transmission shops and is pretty much bullet proof. The V730 is a bit more complicated and not nearly as forgiving.
Parts for VS trans. are still available off the shelf and not that hard to find. Besides, there are lots of VS transmissions laying around for low prices.

Dallas, I see now where the confusion may have come from. I hope to heck she doesn't have the VH for the kind of $ they paid for the conversion.

A lot of folks swear by the VS's and I can't fault them, when they get better MPG than a stick. With the v-drive coaches, we're left with very few choices of powerplants and trannies, so we have to make hard choices. Depending on one's lifestyle, driving locations, and preferences: going 80mph on the flats of the midwest vs. going up and down RockyTop, city driving vs. interstates, superslabs or hilly campsites, etc.

Thanks!
Brian Brown
4108-216

[Christyhicks]

Well, I read the tag on the transmission myself. .  and it did say VH.  It was hard to read around the crap in the way, and I was wearing Larry's glasses at the time , but I did clearly see a VH, so I'm thinking that pretty much seals the deal, doesn't it?   I don't mind taking pics of it and posting them, but I'll have to find a program to shrink them to get them to post.  Let me see what I can do.

The owner of the bus simply went by what people told him.  He knew nothing about busses, or most of the components inside.  He couldn't decide if the genny was a 8 kw or a 10 kw, advertised the bus as having an Espar, when in fact, it had a Webasto.  On the other hand, we didn't pay quite as much as it was listed, and we are very pleased with the amount of bus we got for the money.  We actually researched every bus for sale on every website we could before flying down, and the quality of the conversion package is what convinced us to buy.  I've seen quite a few conversions and have seen a million pics of them, and the woodwork is seldom nicer than in this one.  With the air leveling system, the 10KW genny, the Webasto hot water/pre heat, the installation of the caps on front and back, and the quality of the woodwork, well, we felt like it was worth the money. 

We have no doubt that the engine has very few miles on it. . . you barely hit the starter and she fires and doesn't smoke, and she doesn't burn oil either.  Larry doesn't even start that fast and he smokes plenty!   Even the transmission issue looks to be minor. . . the day we test drove it, it did the same thing and lubricating the linkage solved it that day, but the seller knocked $500 off the price just in case it caused a problem again.  Heck, even the 1988 model fridge still cools enough to freeze your food if you don't watch out.  Overall, we think the bus was well worth what we paid, based on comparable units for sale.  We just like to make everything as nice as possible, and can't buy anything without fixing it up a little. . .just not in our nature.  Again, it's a disease.  Course, I don't have to explain that to you guys, do I?     Christy Hicks 

[Buffalo SpaceShip]

Hey Christy:

You can send the pic(s) to me at sub AT archtex DOT com (cryptic email to keep the spammers at bay) and I can shrink 'em.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to rag on your conversion. It does sound very nice. If it truly is a VH, though, Dallas is right... you will want another tranny. The VH is jsut not intended for highway service and mating to an 8V71. You can pick up a takout VS2-8 from Nimco or another transit parts source... for maybe $1000... or a V-730 for maybe $500 more. Shipping will be a nighmare ($$$), but can be done. It might also be a roadtrip for you, and just throw it in one of the bays... as long as your VH holds up, anyways. 

You'll have some work to do to get an air or cable shifter that works with the new tranny. You might have some bulkhead work to do, too. And see what kind of cooling setup you have.

Ah, the joys of this busnut business...    I've heard from those that own boats that BOAT should mean "Break Out Another Thousand". So what is BUS? 

bb

[LUKE at US COACH]

Hi Christy & Folks:

I am jumping into this conversation, late in the game, and although I glanced at the posts, I think I have a feel for the conversation.

Christy, although the heavy back plate on the rear of the Trans. says VH, I suspect that you have a VS, as you have a Highway Coach.

On the side of the trans., unless it was removed, there should be a plate riveted on by Allison when built.  If still there, it will list the model and serial numbers of the Trans.

The best way to tell for sure is by observing the outside of the Trans, if the Plate is missing!!!

How many electric Solenoids are on top of the trans???

If you would E-Mail me pics. of the trans, or call me Monday, We can hopefully tell you what trans you have.

I am on the Board of Directors of a Youth Drum & Bugle Corps. and their buses stay here.

Their 4905 with a VS-2-8 started dragging its butt on take off.  This week we installed new clutch packs and seals and as it left the yard to fuel up, I knew they once again had a Rocket Ship.

The Transportation Manager is now concerned that the 4905 will run away from the 3 MC-9's that the Corps. owns.  And it WIll!!!

Happy & SAFE!! Bussin' to ALL.

LUKE at US COACH

[Christyhicks]

I will look at the Transmission agan, but the plate I was reading was on the side and it looked original.  We have three solenoids on it, I do know that.  I will spend more time on it today & report back.  Christy

[Barn Owl]

When I started looking for a bus I wanted a manual shift. My father who owns two 4106s with the 4 speed said that I would, after a few trips up and down my driveway, tear the clutch out of it (I have to do some very fancy maneuvering to turn it around on this hill I live on.) Well I bought one with the V730 and would never consider the manual now. I think if you had to install a V730 you would be very happy with it. There are many shifter options available with this transmission, just do the homework. My shifter is beside the right side of the seat and I do not like that location. My pants get caught on the T-handle and I am worried that one day I will tear it off if I am not careful. Here is a site I like to resize pictures to post on this bb: http://www.resize2mail.com/ I found it in another post, probably in the jump start area. Easy and quick.

http://www.resize2mail.com/

[TomC]

Barn Owl-take the T handle off and just put a round knob at the end-is what I have and never catch my pants (course I'm usually wearing shorts).  Good Luck, TomC

[Dallas]

I will look at the Transmission agan, but the plate I was reading was on the side and it looked original.  We have three solenoids on it, I do know that.  I will spend more time on it today & report back.  Christy

Christy Sent me the Photos of her transmission and I've resized them and will upload them here.
You'll see that in picture #018 the tag shows the VH.

I think if it looks like a duck and shifts like a duck, it's probably a VH