Bus wont shut off!

[ilyafish]

Hey guys!

So just got home in new jersey after driving from indiana, pulled into my driveway, went to turn the bus off, and it is not shutting off.  I turned off the fast idle, and turned the key as if to shut it off, and it is still holding a low rpm.  I dont have an emergency engine shut off switch or anything.

I checked everything, in neutral, parking brake, etc. 

Not sure if this has anything to do with anything, but when we stopped during the trip to change drivers, there was a high pitched screeching sound almost and some smoke coming out of the air filter or not even sure what it is on the drivers side about 5 ft back from the drivers window.  It had something to do with the a/c is all i know.

any help would be appreciated!

[ilyafish]

ps....i also checked the rear start panel and all of that.

[Paladin]

How much air pressure are you building?   

[compedgemarine]

not familiar with MCI's but the only things I know of that would cause it are 1) low air pressure 2) skinner valve stuck 3) air solinoid that closes the rack stuck 4) no air to the skinner valve. I suppose there may be others but I would start there.
steve

[ilyafish]

the air pressure dropped down to 90, and then built back up to about 115 or so, and the bus now shut off.  i didnt really give the bus a chance to just sit at the low rpm....as soon as i noticed it wasnt shutting off, i just turned the key and hit fast idle again.

it held the low rpm for about 5 minutes before shutting off.  in the meantime i called mci technical support, and the guy there said i may have an air pressure leak.  i dont hear anything, but he says that it is not normal for the air pressure in the bus to drop to 90 and then climb back up.  the bus has actually been doing that all the time for weeks, but i was informed that this was normal.  mci tech support says that is not normal, that it should hold a constant air pressure instead of fluctuating.



well at least the good news is i'm home, tour is over, and maybe i should really get this thing looked over

[Barn Owl]

If you haven't already found it manually shut it down by pulling the "J" looking leaver that is on the governor. You might have to use a stick or something on a MCI to push it, and I say that because I think that is what Jack Conrad has said before. Having a GM makes it easy because everything is easily reached.

Ok, before I finished posting I see you are off, but you need to learn how to shut it down manually even without air pressure. I am sure another MCI owner will be able to better explain what you need to do and where you do it.

[compedgemarine]

I would agree with MCI. the air should stay steady at 115 to 120 unless you are using the brakes or something that pulls air. If it is dropping to the cut in pressure while driving on the interstate then the air is going somewhere so you need to find the leak and get it fixed before you head out again.
steve

[tekebird]

a 30 PSi loss is bad.  where it happened I would expect it is in the parking brake circuit perhaps.

But you have another problem as well I think.  your engine should shut down as low as 60 PSI

also if you needed the Fast idle to build 30 PSI in any period of time I would suggest you might be looking for a new air compressor.

Have you done an air brake check as per a CDL driver's test lately?

Do a Brake Application and hold the brake on.  Note the PSI loss (initial) and also any residual loss after the initial loss

[JackConrad]

   Had you been using the air brakes quite a bit with the engine at an idle while parking when you got home.  This will cause the air pressure to drop. Our MC-8 will shut off with as little as 35 PSI. The engine stop solenoid uses power to keep engine running, removing power to the solenoid should allow air to the engine stop piston.
    To manually shut off the engine, you have to push the engine stop lever on top of the govenor and hold it until the engine stops. Best to use a stick, as your arm will be very close to the blower belt.  NOTICE: Do Not Allow Finger Or Thumb To Get Between The Lever And Engine Stop Piston!  If the piston extends, serious injury to finger/thumb will occur.  Jack

[buswarrior]

Hello iminaccess.

Time to start reading, and reading, and reading.

The Operating, Maintenance and Parts manuals for your coach are required.
Someone on here or over on BNO (busnut.com) will sell you them. Check the classifieds on both sites.

It would be my advice that you do not set out again until a qualified technician gives your bus a once over, the preventive maintenance gets caught up, and you get some learning into you about how to keep that thing safely roadworthy.

If your car had a couple million miles on it...which parts could you take for granted?

You are in New Jersey, where?  One of the best in the business is Luke, owner of US Coach, part way between Philly and Atlantic City. You will be treated honestly and fairly.  856-794-3104 is his new number.

I would plan to drive the coach there, be prepared to leave it, have it inspected and serviced front to back, and pay them, if they'll take your money, for a day's worth of instruction on the care and feeding of your motorcoach. They will work with you, let them do the complicated stuff, you take it home and do the easy stuff.

You got off lucky on this last trip.

The bus gods will not be as forgiving moving forward...

neither will the law enforcement community, if they catch you out with your coach in that condition... they'll treat you as commercial, whether you are or not, hand you several thousand dollars worth of tickets, (one for each defect, no logbook, no vehicle inspection, wrong licence, wrong insurance, etc) impound the bus, you get to walk... oh, sure, you'll get some of it sorted out in the court house on Monday morning, but in the minimum still be on the hook for the tow and storage....

You DO NOT want to be broken down at the side of the road in a minimalist conversion and under the age of retirement....

Good luck, and keep us informed!!!

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[RJ]

You are in New Jersey, where?  One of the best in the business is Luke, owner of US Coach, part way between Philly and Atlantic City. You will be treated honestly and fairly.  856-794-3104 is his new number.

Luke's toll-free number still works, too!  1-888-262-2434

FWIW & HTH. . .

[quantum500]

neither will the law enforcement community, if they catch you out with your coach in that condition... they'll treat you as commercial, whether you are or not, hand you several thousand dollars worth of tickets, (one for each defect, no logbook, no vehicle inspection, wrong licence, wrong insurance, etc) impound the bus, you get to walk... oh, sure, you'll get some of it sorted out in the court house on Monday morning, but in the minimum still be on the hook for the tow and storage....

You DO NOT want to be broken down at the side of the road in a minimalist conversion and under the age of retirement....

Good luck, and keep us informed!!!

happy coaching!
buswarrior

Although your advice is great on the mechanics the advice on the law is questionable.  If it is registered as an RV there is not a damn thing they can do to you under any kind of commercial vehicle law.  They can talk tough but thats about it. 

[buswarrior]

Hello quantum.

That's correct, registered as an RV, in theory, but that won't help at the roadside.

Remember, these guys are not busnuts going camping, they are a band on tour, and I expect, fairly obviously not the Rolling Stones.

The enforcement officer is judge, jury and executioner at the roadside.
Ask a local truck fleet Safety Officer about how "fair" the commercial enforcement community is...
There are a good number of them who will write whatever ticket they feel like, depending on what they think of the recipient, the laws are written vaguely enough, and what is "right" doesn't enter into it at that point. There's no comeback, they have a book of tickets to write, whether they are correct or win doesn't enter into their performance measurement.

First ticket is for being registered wrong, and then come the rest. Pretty easy to stand up in court and say, "these boys told me all about how they are conducting a commercial enterprise for compensation with this conveyance, which fits this definition here in the statutes, (insert the local chapter and verse)  and all the rest of these charges are in relation to this first one..."

And the court house is only going to make things right if you know how to defend yourself. Or perhaps, how not to defend yourself?

And for these guys, the next question is when? and at what cost?

These guys are musicians out trying to make a livelihood playing their music and don't have the background in highway law to go toe to toe with a rogue enforcement community. They have to get to the next gig on time, they can't afford to keep cancelling because the stupid bus has caused them yet another delay and expence. Reputations are made and lost on this stuff. Some of the other band members will already be wondering if the bus is the right thing to have done.

The bus is a tool for these guys, not the centre of their universe. They need it to work, now, and with a minimum of screwing around and inconvenience. They need to be invisible out on the road and attract as little attention as possible. The success of their venture moving forward is that the bus stops causing trouble, and really soon.

I would suggest that a few of the things that help keep all us busnuts out of trouble is that we are fairly knowledgeable about our equipment and are in the middle of successfully recovering it if we are found broken down roadside, we are a family travelling with kids, we are retired and may appear to be confident, which may suggest powerful and connected somehow, and the rogue enforcement officer isn't quite sure who we might be or what trouble we might cause, we appear to be what we appear to be and we get left alone.

Not because we aren't a target, but because we aren't worth it.

A bus full of young musicians on tour who aren't sure what is what are sitting ducks.

These guys aren't us.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[NewbeeMC9]

Find the lever and practice shutting it down.  Make you feel a a whole lot better.

If i find "glow in the dark" paint,  I 'm gonna paint mine with an arrow on which way to pull-it



Get the books, get used to the bus, then worry about groupies

[ilyafish]

bus warrior, you are absolutely correct in everything.

and just like every other situation this tour, if we were getting ripped off by trucker mechanics or anything, we had to go with the flow.  because our priority, like you said, is to get to the next place on time.  and unfortunately that costs more than it should sometimes.

good news is we are home until spring, and music aside, i do aspire to be a busnut.  so i will soon be ordering all my manuals and reading them cover to cover.  i have already determined after the band that i will purchase my own coach....so i might as well get started now.

thank you for all your help and patience through my newbie questions!