WVO in two strokes, saw a friends 80 gallon kit, his 4 stroke Ford runs great

[Len Silva]

$1.20 a gallon for waste oil. So how is my friend who actually does this putting it in his tank after processing for 40 cents less?Where are you reading /hearing this kind of stuff? I would love to see the source of that kind of misinformation.

Here are a couple, many more articles out there.

http://www.dailytidings.com/2007/1119/stories/1119_valley_grease_wars.php
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes/access/1491173781.html?dids=1491173781:1491173781&FMT=FT&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Jun+7%2C+2008&author=CRAIG+PITTMAN&pub=St.+Petersburg+Times&edition=&startpage=A.1&desc=SLICK+THIEVES+HAUL+OFF+GREASE

I never said they were paying the restaurants that much; that's what it's worth to the haulers after collection.

[kyle4501]

Luvrbus, That is EXACTLY why one should ask first. Some can & will gladly help.

I ain't saying it won't work. I am saying there is more to it than some would have you believe. I'm all for iminaccess (& any one else for that matter) having sucess with his. I'm just not a fan of unauthorized acquisitions. If he were to be in this area & ask, I'd make as many phone calls as I could to help him locate wvo.

I started this post and asked for REAL honest answers I can use and folks like you are giving me authentic been there done that advice and I thank you.The advice you gave must have been given with the knowledge that a few here would see this as an opportunity to do what seems to come so easy to us as people. Pointing out the speck in someone else's eye while ignoring the plank in their own is a gut level reaction.

Stealing is stealing. I am blessed it is a gut level reaction. (It's a shame it isn't in more people!) A good friend has a small restaurant & has wvo in back. It may be a regional thing, maybe it's just his supplier, but he is actually renting the cooking oil & is charged for what isn't in the wvo bin.
Still think the midnight acquisitions aren't stealing?

I am sorry that I didn't ask for advice somewhere else. where people can feel safe to honestly discuss without fear of reproach.

You are getting good advice here. It seems you don't want any that isn't what you wanted to hear.   
Most here encourage good behaviour, & will discourage irresponsible behaviour.

It is very telling of someones true character by what they defend or support. 
I will not defend stealing, even if it is from a crook.
I will support informed decision making & that requires knowing the good, bad & ugly - even if most want to hide it behind smoke, mirrors & empty promises.


Kyle, I would love to lecture and respond to your jabs defending business for any of their behaviors.Behaviors which have had unspeakably greater consequences than some well intentioned people using waste oil that people are throwing out.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who is interested in this lecture. So it's OK to steal from people/ businesses that aren't perfect? Since some businesses are bad, they all are?
The consequences of improper applications are REAL, even if the intentions were good.
(The oily residue in the trailer has many potential sources, including low compression as a result of damaged compression rings.)

They are stealing garbage after all. Not 401k's and savings accounts.

Again, it may not be garbage, someone else may be paying for it. Hence the need to get permission first. In my friends case, it is taking it out of his savings. . . .

But I am sure many would agree this board would be better served without another pointless argument.You are free to call the cops on them if it will make you feel better.

What entertainment value is a thread without spirited discussion?
Arguments aren't pointless if someone learns something. But one must have an open mind before knowledge can enter . . . .

Not every person who loves buses lives their lives exactly like me. Wow what a concept.

Yet you condemn all businesses for the 'unspeakable behaviour of a few.   

Thanks for the advice guys, you are helping me to make a good decision and If you will email me your address I would like to take from what little we have to give to you so you can keep on keepin' on.
God Bless your travels

Good luck in your quest for knowledge. Have you googled BIODIESEL for the discussion groups? I'm sure you'll find all sorts of information there too.

[niles500]

WVO used to be free to the contractor who picked it up because of the cost of transposrting and handling it, although they've always sold it for a mutitude of uses (fuel,feed supplements,etc.) to reproccessors at a profit - now because of the rising commodity costs the smart WVO generator can demand, and will get, cash to offset the cost of the VO - see below*

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/30/us/30grease.html?_r=1&ei=5087&em=&en=ffb44d2801511502&ex=1212292800&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1222700895-t8PQd3+hll9Du3YilJjyLw&oref=slogin

[Busted Knuckle]

Peach,
First off I'm not wanting to get into the stealing/not stealing argument! Second I have very little knowledge of WVO systems. But I can say that in my past I myself have done questionable things. Many of which would not be approved of by many others. But that is in the past and I was caught for some things I did, and while I was guilty of what I was caught for (and some I wasn't). When it was time for me to be judged they charged me with things I had not been guilty of as well as the ones I clearly was. Now one wrong don't make it right to blame one for all wrongs. But the truth is our society is programmed to lay blame wherever possible. So what I'm trying to say is right or wrong taking the oil w/o permission could lead to you being accused of worse things. Now that being said I paid for the things I did and some I didn't. Which at the time (young age) I had a very large grudge about. But as time has passed and I have grown and matured I look back at it as I paid for the things I DID & got caught for, and things I did and DIDN'T get caught for by paying for the things I was falsely accused of. I never did anything violent, and never hurt anyone but my self and those who love me. Either way I have paid my dues to society and the state of IN many yrs ago for the things I did. I got my act together and live my life one day at a time, and consistently ask myself daily if any of my actions will have a negative impact on the way it effects those I love because the last thing I wish to do is hurt them any more in any way. I live a simple, and basic existence in life these days. Sometimes $ is hard to come by and other times it ain't but I sleep well at night I earned every penny I make. I may never get rich, but I know in my heart that I am treating others fair and the way I wish to be treated.

Now that the confession has been made. I would not normally say taking "trash" is stealing. But on the other hand if it is indeed trash then there should be no problem acquiring permission.

Now what if something worse happens to a place the same night you guys are seen taking veggie oil? Say right after you leave (or just before you got there) someone broke in and stole a bunch of $, or food from the freezer, or a keg of beer, or etc. Chances are you'll take the wrap for it as well, even if you have nothing to do with it "just because you were there and "you were taking WVO".  So consider this in the future. I'm not saying what yer doing is right or wrong, just look at it from the other side and see how "the judge" will look at it!

Now back to the topic at hand. I have no knowledge of the pros and cons of WVO. Except that I know that the space, & time it requires make it very impractical for my use in the charter biz. But I welcome the debate and educated experiences on it as I am going to build my own conversion someday and by then maybe, just maybe you guys will have perfected a way to make it a simple reliable way of doing it!

Now one other thought is that when you guys book yer gigs you put in the contract that the hiring party either let you get X amount of WVO from their bins or they make arrangements with another local establishment to let you get X amount of WVO. This way you know in advance that once you arrive and do your show you will have "fuel" to make it to the next one!
Also you might check with where you will be, or some of the other local establishments before you get there and see if you can have or buy at a reasonable rate some WVO (I read some where that the contractors where paying $20 a bin?) Could you offer maybe $20 a half a bin? I don't know the size or anything like, and I know it's not "FREE". But still cheaper than diesel, jail & a lawyer!

JMHO FWIW!   BK 

[Lin]

Lovrbus,
     You said your son is paying $1.60/gal for new veg oil.  Now I would not be into the collection of WVO at all, but buying and using new stuff at that price seems attractive.  It would seem that there could easily be coops producing Biodiesel for around $2.00/gal.

[RickB]

I had a discussion with a friend about this blog a couple months ago. We met each other because of this blog and I am grateful for that. You know who you are. Towards the end of looking at his what can only be described as "works of art" buses he sheepishly turned to me and said:

"so what do you think of the bus blog"?

I replied "there is no greater wealth of knowledge for a bus owner on the planet"

to which he replied "yeah but I'm not sure it's worth the downside of the consistent bickering and condescension that come with the valuable advice". I think he said something like "there's something repulsive about a know it all who actually does know it all." I believe there is truth in that statement.

It's funny one of the by-products in making Biodiesel from WVO is glycerin. A bunch of clogging yucky junk that accompanies the good stuff.

As of this entry I withdraw from any activity that remotely enables or encourages argumentative or condescending behavior from this point forward. You win guys. You know who you are and everyone else does as well. You will get no more arguments from me. Life is too short and if I continue I will lose the good stuff that this blog has to offer.

I am grateful to Busted Knuckle for his honesty,humility and humanity that helped me to see that sometimes the best way to win the game is to not play the game. Thanks to everyone for their attempts to help me solve a number of issues with my bus.

[kyle4501]

$1.30 a gallon. 3 three hours of work. Sounds awfully good to me...

I am sure you guys have got alot of opinions about this so I'm all ears.

But you started it!       

Be careful what you ask for. 

Based on some threads concerning WVO & biodiesel, this one was tame. 



I just found this one that seems to address several on the nuances in running bio & wvo. . . . .

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=7433.0

[Busted Knuckle]

I had a discussion with a friend about this blog a couple months ago. We met each other because of this blog and I am grateful for that. You know who you are. Towards the end of looking at his what can only be described as "works of art" buses he sheepishly turned to me and said:

"so what do you think of the bus blog"?

I replied "there is no greater wealth of knowledge for a bus owner on the planet"

to which he replied "yeah but I'm not sure it's worth the downside of the consistent bickering and condescension that come with the valuable advice". I think he said something like "there's something repulsive about a know it all who actually does know it all." I believe there is truth in that statement.

It's funny one of the by-products in making Biodiesel from WVO is glycerin. A bunch of clogging yucky junk that accompanies the good stuff.

As of this entry I withdraw from any activity that remotely enables or encourages argumentative or condescending behavior from this point forward. You win guys. You know who you are and everyone else does as well. You will get no more arguments from me. Life is too short and if I continue I will lose the good stuff that this blog has to offer.

I am grateful to Busted Knuckle for his honesty,humility and humanity that helped me to see that sometimes the best way to win the game is to not play the game. Thanks to everyone for their attempts to help me solve a number of issues with my bus.

Well I for one am honestly sorry that it was taken this way! As high lighted below I pointed out that I enjoyed learning about this as well as any other topic controversial or uncontroversial both!
JMHO FWIW!   BK 

Now back to the topic at hand. I have no knowledge of the pros and cons of WVO. Except that I know that the space, & time it requires make it very impractical for my use in the charter biz. But I welcome the debate and educated experiences on it as I am going to build my own conversion someday and by then maybe, just maybe you guys will have perfected a way to make it a simple reliable way of doing it!
JMHO FWIW!  BK  

I know I for one wish that  we could continue to follow up on these subjects with out alienating those brave enough to do it or ask about it to where they tuck tail and are never heard from again whether it be good or bad! I apologize if I for one have made ANYONE feel that their "topic" is not worth the hassle! In my opinion EVEN if it's me that is guilty of it is IGNOR the nay sayers and continue to debate this issue! I don't mean that to mean not to take the negative arguments into consideration, but to meant that just because they don't agree with you, don't let them ruin your efforts without prov-en facts that prove it's not worth persuing! AGAIN JMHO FWIW!
 BK  

[RickB]

B.K. I plan to continue to visit here when I have a problem that the good folks of this blog may be able to help and when needed  I will help as well anyway I can. However, I will limit my reading of other people's responses.

For what it's worth, people like you are the reason I am not discontinuing my visits here.

Listen, some people don't like winless, arrogant arguments and others consider them fun and entertaining.

Besides, I gained plenty from this discussion. Sobering discussions about the real maintenance of these Bio diesel and WVO systems and also the comment that Dallas mistakenly sent to the folks with WVO on their car applied to my MCI as well. My airbox tube has been leaking like a sieve all over my car since I bought my bus and not just at idle. Dallas I am interested in those check valves but only if you'll explain how to install them.

[RickB]

Busetd Knuckle I'd like to stop by and meet you when we pass through your area later this month... We live in Nashville and will be on our way North. You up for it? Any RV parks nearby?

[Gary '79 5C]

Sojouner,
You have it correct, I have several friends who run WVO in their MB diesels, but with separate tanks, pre heaters, separate filters, start up on diesel & and shut down on diesel, as you stated.

Teke,

Just how many of those MB's would you like as I can offer and many as you like at under $ 75,000 to you.
The Blue Tec's list at the dealer for $ 53,500.

I have three MB diesels and am extremely frugal, but do not see fit to use the WVO as of yet, logistics, time involved, filteration equipment, and separate tank/filters/inline fuel heaters. Maybe at $10.00 gal. but help us all if that day comes.

Drill Here, Drill Now, Drill of both coasts...

Gary

[Busted Knuckle]

Busetd Knuckle I'd like to stop by and meet you when we pass through your area later this month... We live in Nashville and will be on our way North. You up for it? Any RV parks nearby?

Rick you are welcome to stop by anytime! We are in and on the go all the time, but if you call ahead we can usually give you a basic Idea of our schedule!

Yes there are "parks" close by, but I use the term loosely as they are not my idea of a real "park". I mean if ya wanna be parked right on the edge of the HWY, in town, out in the sun with other RVs right next to ya I guess they are OK!

But if you'd like to stay out in a comfortable country setting you are welcome to set up camp here at our place! We have 30 Amp service and a dump station other than that it's just a place to park half way in between Wal-mart in UC and Fulton, KY!
We get occasional guest who stop in and say hi, and we get some who hang out for a day or 2 or 3 what ever suits ya.

The only thing I do have to warn ya about is sometimes charter buses come and go at weird hrs. And sometimes dad, Robert, Devin, or myself or all of us are in the shop at late hrs too! But of the guest we've had I've never heard any complaints of us keeping them up! Some even watch and wave or come to help with a cup of coffee in hand!

Shoot Dallas and Cat never even knew we had a tire EXPLODE on one of the buses at midnight while they were sleeping next to the shop!!
Dallas discovered it in the AM when he found the bus, tire, and mess we left behind in the shop! As we stole (stole is such a harsh word for taking an unattended bus while the owner slept and had no idea his wife said we COULD borrow it! LOL) borrowed a neighboring companies bus in the wee hrs of them morning and departed for Branson!

But usually things are much quieter around here than that particular time! Ask Cat & Dallas, Cody & Libby,Mike & Jay, Belfert, Gary & Linda, Jerry & Sharron, Uncle Ned & Wilma, Don (oopps may not wanna ask Don seems he had his own moment of despair here just prior to his departure thru no fault of his own or ours either for that matter!) Charley Davidson has been known to stop in and stay once in a while.
I know for a  fact I am forgetting some of those who've stayed over either by themselves or as part of a group! I apologize for any I forget it is not intentional at all! It's just that my memory is not as good as it used to be and I'd have to go back and look at prior post or notes to remember all who have graced us with the presence!

Just let us know when ya coming and we'll try to arrange to have drivers run the trips that are not designated driver deals (like mom & dad ALWAYS carry Murray States Equestrian Team, I always carry the FRAT groups, etc.).

Shoot if it's timed right we could have a "mini-non-rally" of our own! Last time I talked to Cody & Frank they were trying to make plans to be here toward the end of October at the same time!  (I'll do another thread and see who else might be interested!)

As I've said before any and all of you busnuts are welcome anytime!   BK   

[ktmossman]

customers complained of heat transfer when sitting close to the fire.

Reminds me of a friend back in high school.  We ALWAYS went to church camp in the summer and church camp ALWAYS ended with a bonfire.  This was back when 501s (metal button fly) were the "in" thing.  Well, by the end of the week, my friend was going "commando" ('cause some poor fool always forgot to bring enough undies) in his 501s (knockoffs).  So, we were in the middle of a serious emotional moment around the campfire (everyone facing the campfire in a circle speaking their piece about the week.) And he started getting really emotional.  He had actual TEARS in his eyes. The counselors were just sure that something REAL had happened for him.  They had no idea...  As soon as the closing prayer was over, he made the fastest 100-yard dash I have ever seen, straight into the lake.  Of course, those of us who had figured it out were in tears by now as well, but for an entirely different reason.  Took him a looooong time before he thought it was as funny as we did.

[Ncbob]

I view the people here like family, & you can trust family to speak their mind.
Here is a small piece of mine:
From reading the postings, it appears some were looking for condescending behavior, no big surprise that something could be found in a topic this contentious to satisfy that.

Some of the questions that beg to be asked:
What good is the answer if the one answering doesn't know that of which they speak?
What good is a discussion if nothing new is presented & everyone agrees?
If you already know the answer you want, why ask?

Bob

[NewbeeMC9]

Rick,
welcome to bussing ,  yes a great crowd here

as with every crowd, the old law says "there's one in it" so be glad when you recognize that one, cause if you don't see one it means it's your turn


just to be a busnut you have to have thick skin because there ain't a busnut here that hasn't been humbled a time or two by the bus itself   ( I know i have)

also, in type, it is really hard to judge emotions, intent, and meaning.

Busnuts we are, Stephen King we ain't


Also, part of the reason busnut are individuals is because the motto "do it your way!"

The information here is great and awsome and perfect , however, it comes with no warranties or garauntees.  which takes you back to you still being responsible for your own bus.  so when you post a question, you may get a slew of answers so you stll have to do what you want but at least you have thought thru some options and maybe saved yourself some heartache.  I post here even if i think i know what i want to do and i usually learn something and change my original plan.   

I don't agree with everybody here and every body doesn't agree with me, but since they are like family, they are entitled to be wrong !


So back to the oil, there is a long thread about this, I thought it was a sticky,  i'm sure there is a yahoo group too.  If you have what it takes to to make biodiesel, and you choose to address or ignore points brought up here and elswhere,  "do it your way!" 

post pics, we love pics, share your success & accomplishments along with your problems so we all learn. and people will be interested.

I have learned from this thread, especially about BK, whoda thunk!

also, careful what you ask for, you just might get it!!  asking for opinion here will certainly get plenty response, (polls--not so much )