Today news....gas prices going up to near $5 tomorrow

[usbusin]

Cody, don't know where you got your figures, but here are the Net Profit Margin for Microsoft for the last five quarters:

Net Profit Margin    27.1%    30.4%    28.8%    31.2%    22.7%

Here is the link:http://www.hoovers.com/microsoft/--ID__14120,period__Q--/free-co-fin-income.xhtml

Looks pretty healthy to me.  I think the federal government should investigate them for "excess" and "gross" profits (tongue-in-cheek).

Looks like about 2.5 to 3 times the Net Profit Margin Exxon makes.

It's called the free enterprise system.

[cody]

I do appreciate the civil way everyone had handled this somewhat controversial thread.  There are always many opinions on how a subject should be handled, thats why we discuss them, we have the ability to relive history or to create history based on how we interact with others and how we vote.  There is no right way, however, there are many wrong ways to deal with what could be corporate greed or could also be shrewd profit adjustments, depending on your viewpoint or perception, I'm not in favor of shooting Joe for charging 10 bucks a gallon, it's more fun to wound him, nurse him back to health, then wound him again.lol  I stand by my beliefs that it's wrong to profiteer in the wake of a disaster, others see it as free enterprise, the market and history will eventually determine what it is.

[Sojourner]

Amen ! Cody

[buddydawg]

We do a better job of debating the issues here then our fearless leaders in Washington.

That is FACT.

[cody]

The numbers for microsoft came from their own stock prospectus, the same for walmart.  I'm not sure hoovers numbers might not be skewed somewhat seeing as they have a financial interest in promoting and distributing microsofts stocks, hovers database lists microsoft and hundreds of other companies as clients for promotional services. If I were trying to sell a companies product or stock, I'd want to display them in the most positive light too.  Hovers is owned by D&B

[Len Silva]

A couple of points..... I think the level of civility here is mostly because we already know and respect each from our common interest in buses and also because daddy will ground us if we get out of hand .

As to the financials, it is the job of the accountant to convince the share holders that they are making money and to convince the IRS that they are losing money, using the same numbers.  I don't know how they do that.

[usbusin]

Cody, you brought up "Net Profit Margin".  I said I don't know where you got your figures.  I gave you the actual published figures and pointed out that Microsoft makes 2.5 to 3 times Net Profit Margin that Exxon does.  If you calculate the percentage income tax paid it is quite revealing who is paying the higher dollar amount.  

Exxon paid 42.3% tax on their income.

Microsoft paid 25.7% on their income.

How much is enough?

[cody]

When you compute profit margin percentages you also need to remember the scale of corporate earnings, microsoft had gross earnings of 60.4 billion dollars, exxon had gross earnings of 1.5 trillion dollars. exxons taxable amount of 42.3% was before adjustments of 40billion dollars of tax abatements, thanks to the enron fiasco, comparing billions in earnings to trillions in earnings is somewhat unfair.

[ktmossman]

Guys, the numbers listed by Hoover's and DB may come from the company, but they are SEC-filed earnings and "forward-looking" statements and may be the single most regulated piece of paper a corporation ever produces, thanks to Enron.  The CEO, CFO, etc. of the company have to sign those statements as legal documents, subject to prison time if they are incorrect.  (Legislation, I believe, supported vigorously by McCain.  Damn, his corporate masters must have been pissed about that!)

Believe me, that legislation is my job security...  My whole job is to make sure that when the exes of my company signs those statements, there is NO margin of error (or as we call it -- a "zero-defect" game).  And you would be amazed at the absurd things we have to validate because if Joe Smith has the wrong level of access on the wrong computer, he might be able to make a change that, somewhere down the chain, might shift one number on that paper just the slightest bit.  

And not only do WE have to verify everything, we then pay hundreds of $$ per hour for an outside firm to come in and verify it all again.  And, heaven forbid they find a mistake, however insignificant.....

Now, if you want irony, there is another compliance spec. that we will soon have to meet.  But this one is industry-based, not a govt. regulation.  You either comply or no-one is allowed to process credit card transactions or data with you (which would bankrupt almost any company that has any contact with credit cards or credit data).  Guess which one is a more effective regulation with less loopholes?

[niles500]

PERIOD ENDING    30-Jun-08    31-Mar-08 31-  Dec-07         30-Sep-07
Total Revenue     138,072,000   116,854,000   116,642,000   102,337,000   
Cost of Revenue   87,099,000    70,206,000      69,391,000   60,206,000   

Gross Profit          50,973,000   46,648,000      47,251,000   42,131,000   

Operating Expenses
Research Develop 
Selling General     25,345,000   22,940,000     23,963,000   21,855,000   
Non Recurring -   -   -   -   
Others                   3,090,000   3,104,000       3,155,000   3,159,000   
 
Total Operating Expenses -   -   -   -   


Operating Income  22,538,000   20,604,000       20,133,000   17,117,000   

   
Earnings ex Int Ta 22,313,000   20,322,000       19,128,000   17,555,000   
Interest Expense        107,000   130,000                128,000   73,000   
Income Before Tax 22,206,000   20,192,000        19,000,000   17,482,000   
Income Tax Exp     10,526,000   9,302,000          8,062,000   7,350,000   
Minority Interest         (225,000) (282,000)           (283,000) (284,000)
 
Net Income Con Ops 11,680,000   10,890,000       11,660,000   9,410,000   

Non-recurring Events
Discontinued Operations -   -   -   -   
Extraordinary Items -   -   -   -   
Effect Of Accounting Changes -   -   -   -   
Other Items -   -   -   -   


Net Income             11,680,000   10,890,000            11,660,000   9,410,000   
Preferred Stock And Other Adjustments -   -   -   -   

Net Income Applica $11,680,000   $10,890,000         $11,660,000   $9,410,000   

[cody]

you lost me here niles, this balance sheet is who's?

[RickB]

I'm gonna step out on a ledge and be honest here. An hour before I responded harshly and personally to KT I was informed that my aunt had died after a 5 year fight with lung cancer. She was not herself a smoker but everyone in her home was you will have to argue with her doctor as to whether or not that caused her cancer, he seems convinced it was. In 1998 I stopped to help a drunk driver and was hit by another drunk driver as I was administering first aid. My insurance company said that I had left my car and that made me a pedestrian. Neither of the other drivers were insured. 80k in hospital bills, long term health complications and a year and a half with a colsotomy bag later I got up and started a family.  My wife and I bought a modest home in 2002 and we were moving along pretty smoothly, then Countrywide sold our loan to another bank who in turn sold it to another bank and our house payment went from $1800 to $3200 in six months. Every attempt to reach someone, anyone to help us understand what was happening was met with a quote we would hear ad nauseum for the next six months. "Sorry that's not my department". So when It became obvious that we could not continue to make our payments we fpund a buyer for our home that would have paid off our loan and left us with the loss of any equity we had accrued. We were just happy to walk away. Then to our surprise Countrywide came back and said that because were in dispute of our bill and had refused to make a payment for 60 days that they would only accept the appraised value of the house as payment. We told them that when we had last had an appraisal that the market was considerably more positive and that we were willing to a new appraisal based on the current value. They refused. Long story short, they sold our house six months later for 60k less than we had offered them. Well, the good news is a year later wefinally have a "department". We received a letter last week from the president of Countrywide that we belonged to a select group of individuals who had recently had our personal info SS#'s dob etc. sold by an employee to an undisclosed third party.

All that said, maybe that clarifies why some here among us have little belief in the ability of large groups of individuals to "do the right thing". The danger is the ability of large groups to turn individuals into objects. If I become an object to Countrywide or Exxon they are capable of forgetting the fact that I have a heart and a family.
Although it doesn't condone my earlier post maybe it arrives with a bit more perspective.
I apologize that this post has had far more to do with bus owners then the buses we work on incessantly.
There  may be no common ground here between the free enterprisers and the people asking for restraint or in the lack of restraint, oversight.I just think it would be nice to start my constitutional right to pursue freedom in the same zip code with those who have more power or money than me.

[Busted Knuckle]

I do appreciate the civil way everyone had handled this somewhat controversial thread.  There are always many opinions on how a subject should be handled, thats why we discuss them, we have the ability to relive history or to create history based on how we interact with others and how we vote.  There is no right way, however, there are many wrong ways to deal with what could be corporate greed or could also be shrewd profit adjustments, depending on your viewpoint or perception, I'm not in favor of shooting Joe for charging 10 bucks a gallon, it's more fun to wound him, nurse him back to health, then wound him again.lol  I stand by my beliefs that it's wrong to profiteer in the wake of a disaster, others see it as free enterprise, the market and history will eventually determine what it is.

Well I for 1 stayed out of it 'cause ya'll got way over my head! And I don't trust our ladder! LOL!  BK  

We do a better job of debating the issues here then our fearless leaders in Washington.

That is FACT.

Yes it is a fact! But then again we ain't fighting for VOTES or BIG BIZ's back pocket $ either!   BK

And what flavor tangueray? Will it clash with my fresh Peach flavored "Phillies"?  BK  

[niles500]

Exxon's - "income statement" not "balance sheet"

showing >>>NO<<< gross earnings of $1.5 trillion

[niles500]

By the way I'm unofficially keeping track of where everyone stands on the issues - so far it's:

McCain/Palin      - 0 votes

Obama/Biden     - 0 votes

Tanqueray/Tonic - 103 votes