Today news....gas prices going up to near $5 tomorrow

[bobofthenorth]

Guys I don't like $5 fuel any better than the next guy.  And I won't like $6 or $7 fuel either.  But greed isn't the enemy.  Free market greed is a good thing.  And gubbermint interference isn't the solution.  Free market greed puts more computing power in my pocket than was on the first moon rocket.  Free market greed provided the technology that enabled the internet that supports this community.  Free market greed gives all of us a standard of living that would have been unimagineable 100 years ago.  Every time somebody starts talking about how somebody should do something about fuel prices I get really worried because the somebody is government and what they end up doing is never productive.  In the commodity markets high prices bring low prices.  But with oil there's a 10 year lag between discovery and production so it takes time.  And we're never going to see $20 oil again.  That's just the way it is.  $50 or $60 - maybe - but $20 is gone into the history books.

[compedgemarine]

well it jumped here in NW Georgia. $3.60 yesterday morning to $4.30 now if you find it. saw several stations out of fuel. in Knoxville where my folks live it is as high as $5.00. oddly diesel has not changed one cent.??
steve

[JohnEd]

Bob,

Everything you say is correct, as i was taught...to a degree.  Instead of "greed" my text referred to "profit motive"(PM).  I did say I thought it was a universal.  Greed was presented as where PM could be expected to evolve if left unchecked or unbridled.  It was refer ed to as the FREE aspect of FREE enterprise.  PM causes a weeding of the least efficient companies and the survivors are the most greedy or highly motivated or most "efficient".  There is no force that has enuf power to withstand the onslaught of corp outrage that regulating will inspire than the Gummint.  Gummint is your only hope when you find yourself at crossed swords with a Corp.

ENRON was made possible by the Gummint recending laws that prevented it.  Utilities regulation.

JD Rockerfeller was slapped down for using his corp leverage to influence the shipping costs charged by rail roads to his competition.  Restraint of trade legislation.  Fair Trade Act, etc.

Predatory pricing between industries located in states led to Restraint of Trade laws and the regulation of interstate trade.  Interstate trade commission (ITC)

The history books are rife with examples of why Gummint reg was required.  In none of those did I find an example of where the general public was not the victim that was being protected.  No matter how far removed he was.  Our Nation was built on principles like these.....til recent history.  Used to be that people looked to the Gumint for guidance and protection.  Today the general public is subjected to propaganda that the Gummint is the enemy and corp giants such as EXXON are our only hope for lower fuel prices.  There are a lot of people out there that will accept a one word explanation for any social ill..."Gummint!".  The great lie is that Gummint hurts the common man and all you have to do is look at who will prosper without regulation and who will provide the capitol to fuel that prosperity to see through that.  In fact, you have to really be committed to keeping your head in the sand to escape coming to other than the "common" or popular conclusion.  News papers need to consolidate without Gummint reg.  News media such as radio, print and TV should be permitted to consolidate in different locations.  News media should be permitted to consolidate "IN" any given market/location.  Laws regulating the funds deposited in Savings and Loans enterprises should not be regulated.  Banks should be unregulated.  Who will profit from all this deregulation?  The media says it will be the common man.  They have many well intentioned folk selling the Snake Oil that will eventually poison them, you and I and our children.  Sure some of it needs updated and rewritten but let us not throw the baby out with the bath water.  Please, for all our sakes.

OK, I'm outta breath now.  Please don't hate me cause I think most of us are trying to get to the same goal post but are taking a different route and allowing ourselves to be guided by different forces.  One of those forces is , in fact, greedy.

Wasn't the favorite disciple a taxcollector?  And didn't the other disciples declare that such a "low life" shouldn't be admitted to the inner circle?  Being anti tax and anti Gummint isn't such a new thing.

John

[Lin]

John,
     I have always found the Stockholm Syndrome to be very interesting (the phenomenon where the hostage takes on the views of the captor as with Patty Hearst).  I believe that there are many variations of the same condition.  For example, there are many cases where a subjugated country or group adopts the beliefs of their oppressors, sort of a Mass Stockholm Syndrome.  There also is something that we could call the Reverse Stockholm Syndrome in which a group that appears to be in authority, such as Prison Correctional Officers, who take on some of the beliefs of those they theoretically supervise.  This could be said to happen because they are vastly outnumbered and they generally maintain control only with the cooperation of, using the same example, the inmates.  Might there also be political and economic variations of the same syndrome?  Would the motto, "If you can't beat them, join them," be a summary of the condition?

     There is no research to support these speculations, but the concepts are interesting.

[JohnEd]

Lin,

I hadn't heard of that but I am certain without doubt that you are correct about "some".  No doubt at all.  Those people are at a serious internal conflict at some level.  That "Gummint never works" propaganda works to sooth their mixed/conflicting emotions.  Just to "Shrink" the crap outta this.

Just look at the recent posts that suggest the oil companies are deserving of our sympathy because they have expenses.  Or that any regulation will lead to a failure of the oil industry and destroy us all.  Or that the oil companies deserve their windfall or price gouging profit levels "because" gross and net profits are not the same thing.  The mind boggles.

Thanks for your post Lin,

John

[belfert]

If there is no supply, why shouldn't gasoline wholesalers charge more for a product they may not be able to replace in the immediate future?  The gasoline wholesaler may be facing a stretch of days with zero revenue or profit due to no supply of gasoline.

Most, if not all, of the refineries in the hurricane path are shut down either due to staff evacuations or lack of oil to refine due to oil platform shutdowns.

Some of the situation is exacerbated by folks who run out and fill every vehicle and gas can they own because they fear future price increases or lack of supply.

Here in Minnesota, most stations in my area are at $3.79 and Thursday most were between $3.49 and $3.59.

[luvrbus]

I spoke with my daughter in Houston and she told me not all stations that have power to pump gas are not gouging the public but some are the lack of electricity is the problem.A Phillips 66 where she buys the guy from India the owner reduced his price to $3.29 but has one grade only but told her he had 70,000 gals in his tanks and is trying to help the people in his new country not make a big profit, to bad others in the area don't learn from this guy

[cody]

And at what point does a loaf of bread bring 20 dollars or 30 dollars is their any limit where the price becomes obscene? I have very little sympathy for the station that suddenly feels it's justified to charge any price it wants, I won't buy football tickets from scalpers either.

[luvrbus]

Cody, my daughter told me Wal-Mart was the first in the area to start raising prices on gasoline so no more Wal-Mart for me not even overnight parking

[ktmossman]

I have yet to see a definition of "greed" or "price gouging" that did not assume some magic threshold based on OPINION.  So, then the question becomes, "Who's opinion do we use?"  If MY opinion is that you are charging too much for your product or service, should I be allowed to use govt. force to make you lower the price?  Think about the job you do every day... Are you sure you want some bureaucrat (think Diane Feinstein, Bernie Sanders, Al Gore, Cynthia McKinney, Ted Kennedy, et al, deciding how much you can or cannot charge for your product or service?  Maybe you work for a company... If they decide that your boss is charging too much, how is he going to make up that money?  Maybe he decides to take it out of your salary, or eliminate your salary altogether.  It has to come out of someone's pocket.

As much as I dislike high prices, in a true free market, rising prices (especially in a time of shortage) prevent over-consumption.  Example:  You own a hotel just north of Houston.  People are headed your way in droves to escape the storm.  You have 5 rooms left, space (if a little cramped) for 5 families, especially with a hide-a-bed or two.  Not vacation arrangements mind you, but it will work in a pinch for a might or two.  A guy pulls in with a van full of family.  How much for a room?  You, being the moral person you are, give him the standard rate, no "gouging" here.  Well, damn, at that rate, he and his wife can have a room to themselves. The two boys can have a room to themselves, as can the girls.  Grandma would like her own room as well.  And Uncle Joe, no one wants to listen to him snore.  So, he takes all five rooms...  Just how moral will the next four families coming down the road think you are?  On the other hand, if you increase that rate  when the shortage comes, it makes it harder for the first guy to justify paying for multiple rooms, so he limits his consumption and there is some left for the next guy.


There used to be companies from the Atlanta area that, after a hurricane or some such in Florida, would load up trucks with  generators and drive down to try to sell them.  Did they charge a premium?  Heck yes, they incurred the initial investment, all of the risk, invested the time to transport them, etc.  They never had a problem selling all they took down and most people were enormously grateful to see them.  But, a couple years ago, a few people complained to the state of Florida about the higher prices and one of the companies was fined for "price gouging".  So now, no more help.  Not worth the trouble...


Just a thought or two...

[cody]

I believe they are called scalpers.  I'm not saying your perspective is wrong, I just see it as distorted and extremely opportunistic, why would anyone want to take advantage of people in a time of hardship just to turn a massive quick profit, during a time like that we should help them, not break them.

[Lin]

I think that doctors should charge according how sick you are.  If you have a simple problem, say a cold, the doctor should figure out how much relieving the symptoms is worth to you and charge what he can get.  Now if you need pain meds, he should know that the more pain you are in, the more he can charge.  After all, he has to make a living.  When you bring a sick kid in with a high fever or something worse, that is his real chance to make money.  Let the market decide who lives!

And another thing, why is the government butting in to other areas they shouldn't.  If a ten year old wants to work, and a business can hire one for less than an adult, shouldn't the government mind its own business and let the market work.  When I lived in India there were lots of kids cleaning parts with gasoline on the street for 12 hours a day.  If the kid didn't want to do it, he would quit, right.  Don't get me started on the government there not wanting kids blown up in fireworks factories.  Those kids know the risk when they take the job.  If the fireworks companies had to hire and train adults and run safe facilities, they would go out of business and no one would benefit.  Where would the spirit of capitalism be then?  And what's all this about the government picking on China.  So they put melamine in baby food and make toys that cause seizures if kids put them in their mouths, can't someone make a clever profit without some liberal regulator interfering.  I don't see any shortage of kids in the world anyway.

The government should stick to what it is supposed to do like bombing other countries and leave Americans alone.  Health care, livable wages, welfare-- all waste.  Let the market decide who dies and who starves.  As long as the prisons are big enough, we're okay.  Do you know that the government does not allow you to sell your own organs?  They're your organs, aren't they?  You can't even sell your kids anymore.  In ancient Rome, a father had the right to kill his kids.  They're his kids, right?  And what's with this liberal notion against slavery?  The founding fathers had slaves.  So, all of a sudden we're better than the founding fathers?  Let's get back to the basics this country was founded on when only male property owners could vote and a company could hire thugs to beat up those lousy labor agitators.  Strong is good, isn't it?  Weak is bad, isn't it?  No more of this "least of my creatures" stuff.  That was before we knew about the divinity of the profit motive.  If God didn't like greed, he wouldn't have made so much of it, right?

Sorry, this is just so much fun!

[JohnEd]

Cody,

I hear ya but I fears you are trying to "push" a string.    There are people out there that will concede that we can put a man on the moon but we can't figure a way to prevent price gouging by unethical slime.  I am amazed that people think that if you give the gummint the authority to cap the price of fuel in a crisis or emergency it will be the end of life as we know it on earth and at least the final death blow to capitolism.

A fellow Knut sent me documentation on global warming in which it was claimed that 31,000 climate scientists were on record as saying that there is no such thing as global warming and the scientists that think there is warming are dupes that are in the pocket of Al Gore and his price gouging minions.  Now would you want to continue a serious discussion with a man of that mindset?  I know for a fact that the guy is intelligent.  But, really..... There aren't that many climate scientists in our galaxy let alone planet.  Don't ask me how I know that.

There is a strong faction in Russia that wants to establish Stalin's successor and vest that individual with  all of 'Uncle Joe's" dictatorial powers.  We have our brand of that mentality here also and I don't think they can be reasoned with any more than those Ruskies.

Be strong and keep your mindset.  It is a pleasure to be of your species.

John

[JohnEd]

Lin,

You rock!  I am on your side no matter what side that is.  Child labor laws as a social ill.  Priceless!

Please write more and more often.  Our very own little Daily Show.  Can we schedule you a time slot?   or slut....whatever...just do it again.

Thank you from the bottom of my damp handkerchief.

John

[Sojourner]

I too don't like to pay more for fuel than need to. But we have choices to live more mean full then we have in the pass like our ancestors does everyday. In the mean time, we need to think alternative fuel or transportation to get to from point A to B.

BTW...we have attorney general to control the rip-off high gouging gas prices. He hears from callers and makes the rip-off pay a $5000 per violation. http://www.wspa.com/spa/news/local/article/south_carolina_attorney_general_south_carolina_price_gouging_law_in_effect/8418/
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Talk about having government to help the not so well poor persons in this gas prices topic.

I thought to post the following to those that think it need government to bail them out.

The following is what my father, grandfather and great-grandfather life's goals. In other words, limited government will allow us to make a goal to live by.
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How to have something to live for and be proud of your life.

1)   Get your spiritual life in order.
2)   Keep body healthy.
3)   Set a life's goal to thrive to do your very best and yearning to learn more about things that will make you better able to the job easier and more productive.
4)   Always want to learn more....don't let your brain become stagnant.
5)   Keep a positive attitude, even in times of adversity.
6)   Always learn from your mistakes.
7)   Learn self discipline.
8]   Be a good steward with your finances and energy.
9)   Don't always limit your labor to 8 hour a day/ 5 days per week


These are a few things that will give you good success and good life. No hard working man that is well to do limit himself to 8 hour per day and 5 days a week.

Whoever does the above things, many good things will come to your life and you will prosper.


Having the high earner to pay greater income taxes so that none-ambitious person gets government supports is a negative way of life and unfair practice.

Only handicap person that is unable to work physically should get government supports

Here is few more suggestion:
http://www.mindtools.com/page6.html

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald