Diesel vs Gas Generator

[johns4104]

I am trying to decide which way to go here.
What kind of life in hours can you get out of a say a honda ev6000 gen. compared to a 3 or 4 cyl. water cooled 1800 rpm diesel gen.

cost i think would be about double or more for the diesel.
I am talking about new units.

I already have a separate tank on my 4104.

Also I think the weight would be about half for the gas compared to the diesel, I think.


any other Ideas or comments.
thanks,
John

[NJT 5573]

I'm starting to think small. Found a 1800 watt marine diesel that uses 1/5 gallon per hour under full load. Some coaches that would not work but I may give it a try.

It could run steady for a month and I would still have enough fuel to get to town with my 154 gallon tank.

[scanzel]

The Honda is lighter and quieter but uses gasoline and is water cooled. Very nice unit. I looked at it but did not want to add a gas tank. If not used monthly gas gets old and gen could gum up. Becomes costly to clean and repair. Diesel very noisy, have to build a better sound encloser, can tap of of your main diesel tank so fuel doesn't sit. I have a 9kw Kohler diesel, I will be using a separate 50 gal diesel tank for the gen and my Proheat unit. I did not want to attempt to try to tap into my existing tank, plus it is a several feet away. My 50 gal diesel tank is a marine poly rectangular. It will sit behind the the wall of the sound enclosure to fuel the gen and Proheat unit which is in the next bay over so both units are close.

[jjrbus]

Depends alot on how much you plan to use it. If planning on useing it alot, the diesel makes sense. I've got a Honda EV6010, in three years I have put 20 hours on it.  For light usage like mine I would have been better off going propane instead of gas.

[TomC]

When I was trucking, I had an Onan 6500 Emerald commercial with a PTO shaft coming out the rear of the alternator to run my sleeper A/C.  I got nearly 11,000 hours out of it before it quit-and Onan didn't believe me since I never removed a cylinder head for decarboning.  But-I also always had at least a 1500watt load on it (block heater) at all times.  I also have a trucking friend that had the Powertech 7.5 compact in his truck that when he sold the truck had 23,000hours on it and still running well.  Diesels have been know to go over 30,000hours (that's like 1.2 million miles of driving) before overhaul.
There is a misnomer that Diesels are noisier.  I've heard the Honda 6000 run, and it should be in a sound enclosure.  My 10kw Powertech Diesel is not very noisy, especially on the outside.  All I did was to build a 3/4" plywood enclosure with venting and with 1" leaded foam insulation.  I highly recommend you stay with Diesel-it is a pain to have to keep up two different fuels.  Especially now since gasoline can start to go bad in as little as 6 weeks, compared to Diesel that is good for years.  Good Luck, TomC

[Lee Bradley]

Not one of your choices but I went with a Honda EV6010 propane. Fuel doesn't go bad very quickly and engine should outlast my busing days.

[Don4107]

I hope that by the time I am ready to get the genset for the new bus that Honda or someone has an RV version of the inverter genset in either propane or diesel.  I would think the diesel engine should be a good candidate for these with the low RPM torque. 

I think with a little thought a Honda could be put in the spare tire cavity on our 4107.  Don't know what a 4104 has for spare space.  Please no spare tire debate.

I like the Honda too.  Since you have the tank a gas unit would do nicely, but the argument that propane does not spoil and that it is around $2.79 a gallon or about a third less is valid.  Only counts if you have/plan a good sized propane tank.  Guess a propane tank could use the space of your gas tank.

Had to put some gasohol in the old bus a couple days ago.  Can't get anything else in WA or ID now, bummer.   Put some in the boat too. $$$$  Hope it does not give too much grief.

Good luck
Don 4107

[jjrbus]

Again depending on usage, you may not need a huge  fixed LP tank, one, two, three, 20/30 pound tanks would work for many people.

[H3Jim]

And remember, that given the same engine, one set up for propane will not be as fuel efficient as an identical one set up for gas.  And gas is generally less efficient than diesel.  For the simple reason that propane does not have as much energy per gallon as gas, and a gallon of gas does not have as much energy as diesel.  Now if the price for diesel would only get to parity with gasoline, I'd be happy ( or rather happier)

[TomC]

I know with Onan, their propane gensets are made to be run on propane-mainly they have 10:1 compression to take advantage of the high octane that propane naturally has.

Onan has a Diesel inverter hybrid system.  I would think it to be a bit expensive and knowing Onan, maintenance intensive. As compared to the Powertech I have with 700hours on it-I've done nothing except change oil, coolant once, air filter once.  Good Luck, TomC

[gus]

John,

I have this exact setup in my 4104 and do appreciate the extra gas tank.  I installed an EV6010 in my 4104 in Jan '07. We have made seven long trips with it with 122hrs on it and I can only say it is excellent. What else would you expect from Honda?

This makes one nice installation, quiet and NO vibration. After all I had read about 3600rpm generators I thought this would be noisy but it is less than half the noise of my old 1800 rpm air cooled Onan.

The only problem I ever had was one time it wouldn't start. I had accidentally placed the fuel line service loop above the inlet at the gen and it was causing an air bubble at the top of the loop.

Lowering the service loop cured the problem.

I know there are very few of these installed in buses so if you want any installation details or photos feel free to email me with "Honda Gen" as the subject. Some of the instructions are a bit confusing.

Pay especially close attention to the dimensions for air flow into the unit. I made my box of plywood with fireproof lining. I figured plywood would be quieter than a metal box. It is fully contained in the box which takes in all cooling air at the side of the bus and exhausts it out the bottom. My bay has an open bottom so it is ideal and yours is probably the same.

I made all sides, the rear and the top easily removable - held on by cinch clips.

The Honda EV6010 is made for RVs, it fits into the 4104 AC engine compartment (Behind the AC cond comp) very nicely. Mine is mounted on a raised 1" square steel tubing skid with the muffler underneath. This skid is held into two channel iron rails held by four bolts to be removed if the skid is pulled out. (In 18 mo this hasn't happened).

The only things to be disconnected if the skid is pulled out are the electrical connectors. The fuel line has a service loop.

I heard all the warnings about 3600 rpm generators but it is quiet and smooth, if I extended the exhaust pipe a bit I probably couldn't hear it. The best part is it costs half what a diesel WC does and I will never live long enough to wear it out in my bus. I figured that if Honda can make smooth running 6000 rpm cycle engines that 3600 would be no problem for them. Besides, how can you beat Honda quality?

My old gas Onan air cooled 2800 rpm gen was a very noisy, shaking monster that weighed double what the Honda does. It shook the whole bus even though it was on 3" rubber cushions.

It is flat rated to 6KW.

It has a nice remote control, almost essential in a bus.

It is not the inverter type so it runs at a constant 3600rpm.

Generators should be run under load a minimum of once a month anyway so the stale gas thing isn't an issue. I usually siphon gas from my 4104's 24 gal tank for my small gas engines so I have to refill it anyway , keeps the gas fresh.

[jmblake]

John,
I have been thinking the same question, I was thinking propane vs diesel, I think it all depends on how much you plan on using the generator. We only would need ours a couple time's a year when we stop overnite at walmart because every where we stay has full hookups so I'am leaning towards propane mainly for Price and not using it that much. Do'es your coach have the bus air or do you need your roof air going down the road? If i needed it for going down the road I would lean towards diesel. Just my thoughts. Jason

[johns4104]

I do not have bus air, although I was thinking about going with an inverter to run the ac while traveling.

How many hours of life can you normally expect from a propane/gas generator

Thanks,
John

[Jeremy]

a gallon of gas does not have as much energy as diesel. 

I'd always understood that it was the other way around, but that diesel engines are more fuel efficient because they operate at much higher compression ratios.

For what it's worth, I have a petrol generator; for me carrying different fuel is a minor inconvienence compared to the major disadvantages of having a diesel (size, weight, cost, noise, vibration). I doubt any of us are really using their generators enough whilst camping to worry about their lifespan. The issue of petrol getting 'old' is something I have never come across here - maybe our petrol has different additives in it.   

Whichever way you go, get a generator with a 'smart throttle' - in normal usage this will reduce noise and improve economy more than anything else.

Jeremy

[kyle4501]

FYI
1 gallon of propane = 91,000 Btu
1 gallon of gasoline = 124,000 Btu
1 gallon of diesel = 139,000 Btu

1 Killowatthour of electricity = 3412 Btu

from:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/science/energy_calculator.html