pretty damn sad

[jjrbus]

  I have to read my responses and delete most of them on this type of post. Lets just say I am a strong supporter of the kill bill.
You might tell your friends to start checking the local pawn shops for thier items.  In FL pawn shop owners are not responsible for stolen merchandise in thier stores so they do not care where it comes from. If you find your property in a pawn shop you must buy it back. That is not a typo you must pay the owner what he paid for your property and he will not be held accountable for possesion of stolen propery. The cost will not be too high, he/she probobly only gave the junkie $100 for your $2000 Rolex!!!!
The other side of this is, if they can find some of thier property the person that pawned it had to show ID, the shop owner must keep a record of this.  So the pawner can be charged with possesion. Now you are thinking what thief would be stupid enough to show thier own ID?  Obviously you have never watched the cop shows on TV!!!!!

[JohnEd]

JJ,

I recently had my car broken into.  They stole a bunch of stuff I shouldn't have had in there....like a nav system and my $400 cell phone.  I turned in a report to the police.  They wouldn't even come out to the car to verify the theft to the insurance co.  My $500 deductable left me with that amt of loss for the break in.  Now here is the fun part....I had the phone co send me a bill for the 4 day time up until I reported it stolen.  Long story about that delay but there it was.  On my bill were 8 numbers that I had not called.  I went down to cop central to see what they would do with my new found evidence.  I was told that there was nothing that the police could do and the Sgt refused to even accept the phone numbers and he did so as if the numbers were stolen property or radioactive.  I asked if I could perform a citizen's arrest and bring the guy in badly bruised.  He told me that if I did that I would be arrested on charges of false imprisonment and suspected battery and likely be locked up with the perp till the DA could verify a lot of stuff about me and my burglary.  I told the cop I was in contact with one of the numbers called and they gave me the name and address of the guy that called that night and in the conversation with them he said he was calling "from my new phone".  They didn't like him either and i thought it might not be much of a challenge to put together a small friendly posse of my friends grandkids that were up to the task with the objective of apprehending the perp where he lived.  I added that I had called my phone and the perp had answered at 11 AM, obviously awoken by my call, in a foul temperament, and hung up on me when I asked politely if we could find a way to get my phone returned.  Sgt. got a little heated and said I had just described a felony "conspiracy" to him and asked if I knew that planning to commit a felony was an arrestable offence?  I asked how it would stack up if it was his word against mine and he got a sly smile and said that everything I had said cop central was being recorded per standard procedure.  I answered "so you admit that you are and have been advised that our entire conversation is being recorded"?  His smile disappeared in a blink and you could see that lots of stuff was going on behind his eyes.  When he focused he said in a clear and steady voice "Sir, please leave immediately".  I said I would do so but with great disappointment.  Sweet God Almighty do cops EVER hate a smart ash....but they define it differently than me and my Conservative friends.

Our PD is famous for busting Lefty Liberal demonstrators with a vengeance.  Everybody gets a thump whether they absolutely need it or not.  Last week some jerks from the University of Oregon were downtown protesting the use of herbasides along county roads.  Cancer survivors really perturb me too and I recently learned I have cancer.  20 of the dangerous perps and they had a spray bottle with poisen written on it with felt pen.  The bearer of the bottle was hammered by the cops and thrown to the ground after the demonstration had peacefully disbursed without any police involvement till that point.  While laying face down the perp was shot in the back from a couple feet with a TASER.  He didn't like it and the cop repeatedly shocked him for not holding still.  The DA dismissed all the charges that day and released the perp. as is what usually happens.  We are famous for catch, handle roughly and release....at least according to the press i read, local TV and the police review board.  Two days later the cops learned that an independent newsman had filmed the entire episode and they dropped the charges against the cop involved in the TASERing.  The DA asked for a copy of the film and the reporter was in the process of compliance when he learned that the DA had refiled charges against the perp and was not investigating the police.  Reporter then balked.  DA is now trying to lock up the reporter.  The DA is like that Sgt that i talked to, when these people learn that there is a record of their activities being made that they do not control and edit they get seriously hissy.  Reporter now says that he will release the film after the cops release their police reports of the incident, sorta a verification of the events and a validation of the official sworn report.  DA is livid!  This is the first time the police have not been able to impound the camera at the scene or bash it to bits in front of the owner.  If impounded the camera is found to be without a memory chip when returned months later.  Remember the perp that was arrested after the herbicide protest?  There were still shots of the scene and there were a dozen cops there after a while and his arrest sheet says that he was in possesion of dangerous chemicals and using them in a manner unlawful.  The stills show the sprayer still sitting there after all the cops leave and no shot shows any cop showing even the slightest interest but the report says that the "fluid" was sprayed "at police".  They abandoned it at the scene....dangerous chemicals....isn't it a crime to abandon dangerous ch ems in a public place?  So many issues.

Some of these police forces give law enforcement a bad name.

IMHO and experience,

John the law abider

[jjrbus]

Why should you not have had the stuff in there??   Why do 95% of the people have to keep themselves and thier belongings behind locked doors becuse of 5% of the population??? Home alarm systems should be for fires and floods.
When I park my bus, I do not lock the bay doors, I would rather loose what is in the bays than have the doors destroyed!!! Very bizzar way to have to look at life, which possesion is more valuable?
When I was in Cebu city Phillippines the police instituted a new crime fighting tactic which reduced crime by a whopping 60%. It is called vigilanteism, if you are caught commiting a crime and no one is around they shoot you, if they see a career criminal and there are no witnesses they shoot them. Career criminal? should be no such word!!!
The longer I am a member of society the less I like it!!!!

[kingfa39]

Hiteckredneck, It dont matter what country they came from in my veiw, they were illegal imigrants which is suppose to be against the law. At least in texas you have a right to protect your property, if a intruder enters you can shoot em, but what really blows my mind is when they are illegals. You should see the protests over this joe horn thing, the people that support him you dont see much, theones against him are all over the place. i wonder sometimes if people even know the difference between right and wrong
Frank Allen

[JohnEd]

King,

As you can see from my posts, I am basically in your camp.  I was even more upset about some of this crap so I did some reading on the subject a long while ago.  Here is some of what I came up with and i hope I get it reasonably straight:

Once upon a time in Illinois, long, long ago a young couple set out for a visit to grandmas place way out in the country.  It was the young brides family and she hadn't been for a visit since she was a prepubescent girl.  It was true about what they say about women and maps....at least in this one case.  They got very lost out in the hinterland.  It was winter and there was a foot of new fallen snow blanketing the countryside.  Being farm country there were few houses and they didn't see any that had smoke from the wood fires emanating from any chimney.  Getting worried about being lost and not having more gas than they needed to get to their destination as farms always had a supply on hand, they stopped at a farm house without even the slightest track in the snow but went to see if people were there and they could summon help or get directions as in those days the telephone operator knew where you were calling from.  The house had phone lines running to it.  According to eyewitness testimony, the husband trudged to the front door and knocked.  The wife decided to try the back door as farm people are pretty trusting as a group.  She didn't open the back door but knocked loud enuf for her husband to hear in the front and then it is thought she might have jiggled the locked door.  Her husband heard a loud shotgun blast come from inside the house, and fearing the worst, he ran to the rear.  His wife never heard the shotgun blast.  She lay dead on the rear porch nearly cut in half by the buck shot from a double barreled 10 gauge shotgun that was wired to the back door in a configuration called a "spring gun".  The young husband was doubly upset, if that can be imagined, because his young wife was 7 months pregnant with his first son.  The state prosecuted the farmer for wrongfull death.

Congress had been aware of the use of spring guns in remote areas and in private urban homes and apartments and so were the state legislatures.  After many many years of tragedies nothing was done as Congress never gets involved voluntarily....it is literally drug into the fray kicking and screaming all the way and is literally forced to take action.  Such was the case with spring guns.  In the congressional hearings it turned out that the states legislatures were loath to attempt any solution as they would be branded "soft on burglars" and voted out so it was up to the fed.  Usually in cases like these the Govs and Sens and local legislators are appealing to the fed to "DO SOMETHING".  In the Congressional hearings a few unsuspecting supporters showed up to testify.  Reps from national and state and local Firefighters were there in number.  Seems that they were loosing a lot of firemen to spring guns nationwide as the devices were getting very popular.  Some cities had ordinances that forbid a fireman from entering any home that was ablaze if the owner wasn't present to verify that there were no spring guns set or where they were located.  A hall closet was a favorite spot for a spring gun but there was a problem with setting a rule that that part of the house couldn't be searched as closets were the favorite hiding place for small children in a house/apartment  fire.  Sticky wicket, that one.

Police officers were also there to be heard.  Seems that in cases of reported home invasions they were being chopped up by spring guns when they entered the wrong residence or answered a mistaken callers plea for assistance on the part of a neighbor.  Regardless, lotsa cops were getting hurt and cops hurt like everyone else.

Both cops and firemen know full well that they have chosen a dangerous profession and they accept that and we try to pay them accordingly high wages to compensate and attract good men to the professions.  They felt, as a body, that asking them to forfeit their life to a device that was protecting a sack of potatoes or even something of less value was a serious misplaced priority.  Cops would not enter any home where their knock was not answered or they could verify that mayhem was going on inside.  The rules of entry, nationwide, were moving in that direction.

Courts don't have their own police and they really are limited to one course of action.  They refuse, legally, to prosecute.  The home owner with a spring gun cannot sue a burglar for anything as, in the eyes of the court, the owner is the "first" felon.  The perp gets prosecuted as a burglar only.  Any injury award goes to the "victim" of the crime and the perp pays.  If the burglar is injured by a spring gun the person that set the device is the first felon and he has to pay damages to any his illegal device injures.  Any one!  That is the deterant.  I magine how sick you would be to have to pay a felon for having injured him while he was robing your house.....the deterant works except for the most hard core liberal that scoff at the law, life and the well being of people sworn to p[protect them  and go's their own way.

The all time favorite spring gun wasn't a firearm at all.  It was an ax with a hole drilled in the handle that was placed over a nail set to fall on the person/child that made the mistake of opening that door from the inside or outside.  There is the case of the NYC shop owner that had been burgled many times.  The point of entry was a transom over his back door.  He had a wire mesh cage built over the inside of the transom but a  crook got in by cutting the wires and slipping in anyway.  Outside bars were useless as they had been cut many times.  Frustrated beyond reason, the shop owner wired the cage to a 120 volt  outlet and plugged it in when he left for the day.  A few days after he started doing this he opened his shop to find a dead, crisp, teenager in the cage.  7 to 15 years for manslaughter and more stories of how you can't do anything right today if you are a law abiding citizen.

From the spring gun law came the legal reasoning that you can't take a life to protect property...period.  That is once again changed back to you can do that.  We were always ably to kill anybody that was threatening us with harm or even another.  Had to shoot him in the front, though, if it was personal.  That is changed now, at least in some places.  Police forces across the country have been cut to the bone to support tax cuts/reduced revenue and I think we all should have greater concern about law enforcement protecting us in any way.  We deserve the law enforcement we are willing pay for and we deserve the hard earned money we kept from the tax cuts or failures to adjust for increasing costs of running our government.  We deserve it....We earned it....and we should be enjoying it.  I have three neighbors that are cops and a police chief cousin(Ret).  My uncle was a fireman that died in his retirement from throat cancer he contracted from chewing tobacco.  In the "good old days" the firemen chewed during a fire to keep a lot of spit flowing so the heat didn't parch them and it helped to filter the smoke they breathed....cancer!  I am an advocate for the police and firemen...anywhere.  Its a conservative value.

John

[ktmossman]

I'm curious as to what the "kill bill" actually says in Texas.  In most states, the "Castle doctrine" is not a general license to kill anyone who is stealing your property.  Most "castle doctrine" bills were intended to give owners the benefit of the doubt and protect them from over-zealous prosecutors when they had to make a judgment call on whether or not they should use deadly force.  Too many homeowners were being prosecuted because they acted in the moment to the best of their knowledge and ended up being prosecuted by "monday morning quarterbacks" because the perp landed in the yard, or really did not have a weapon, or only had a screwdriver instead of a gun, etc.  Most of the "castle doctrine" bills I have read about basically say that a citizen does not have to have concrete knowledge of a lethal threat to defend themselves.  The citizen can assume lethal intent if the perp makes any aggressive action. Some "castle doctrine" bills also expand the right to defend one's home to include personal transportation.

[JohnEd]

KT,

In Pennsylvania and California the law said that you could shoot a burglar in your home at night if the lights were out.  If you could see the villain in the lighted room you had to see a weapon.  You can shoot a knife wielding person if they approach within 8 feet i think it is.  Cops are trained that a person can deliver a deadly knife thrust if shot and they are less than 8 feet away.  I have personally seen a 6 foot 4 inch black man of large, 250 pound, stature take 4 rapidly fired shots to the the center of his chest.  He stopped, looked at his chest and then tried to brush away the bullet holes with his left hand.  In his right he held a small cal. revolver.  The cops were at the scene in response to a call for help from the perps girlfriend whom he had been beating along with her small children.  PCP!  The ten shots that hit his chest after he brushed it weighed him down instantly.  Cops have a problem determining what is enuf force and that clip sure proved it to me if I ever had any doubts.  Home owners have the same problem.

During daylight the perp is called a "house breaker".  Can't shoot them unless they have a weapon "OR" can be thought to present a danger to the home owner.  Case in point was the Oregon(I think it was) homeowner whose property abutted a trailer park.  The park was populated by some motorcycle types that had late and loud parties.  A 7 foot hedge separated the homeowners prop from the row of trailers.  The home owner fancied cats and the trailer park guys fancied PitBulls.  The Pits, always at large, it seemed to many neighbors, killed the mans 4 prized and loved cats.  His complaints for some peace and quiet got him heckled and laughed at by the rowdies.  On the sore of the Pits they suggested he buy bigger cats and they advised him that the dogs would continue to get "off leash" occasionally and the animal control fines didn't bother them.  One day the man yelled at the bikers to hold down the noise and he was answered by peals of laughter and a huge man with beard and tats and dressed in all black pushing through the hedge into his yard.  The intruder smiled pleasantly as he started walking across the yard to the homeowner.  The homeowner shouted twice for the man to stop advancing and leave the property.  Biker ignored the warnings and continued his advance.  Home owner retreated to his open door and grabbed his trusty brand new 9 MM and put a bullet in the bikers heart.  Grand jury voted to hold the home owner over for trial from which he was acquitted of all charges.  Conservative jury!  You can protect yourself now and always have been able to do that in this country...anywhere.  It has always been prudent to insure that the perps body was inside the house so the DA could decline to press charges.

I had never heard of the "Castle Doctrine".  Nice to know the foundation for all the laws I grew up with that made so much sense and seemed to serve everyone so well.  Of course, in those days, I could count on having a police officer respond to any call for help.  I have always been willing to pay taxes for that protection and peace of mind.....WTF happened?  Today i am armed to the teeth, as a collector and shooting enthusiast, and I fear having to use these weapons to protect my self and family.

"You can't mess with Texas" and never forget that.  Those Boys had a law that said that if you caught your wife in bed with another man you could shoot the SOB and it was deemed justifiable manslaughter as you were understandably "upset" at the situation through no fault of your own.  It was also recognized that you might put a bullet in your erring spouse and that was understandable and forgivable as she had placed herself in the probable line of fire.  Now the "Daughters of Texas", an influential group of wives of affluent and named Texans, finally got the Texas legi to take up the barbaric law after 100 years.  The result?  The legi voted to make it legal for the wife to shoot the husband in similar circumstances.  That had, prior to that laws passage, been simple second degree murder.  Equity and no serious progress.  TEXAS!  I like Texans as a group but that state scares me.  Good roads though.  Good schools too, I hear.

Thanks KT,

John

[HighTechRedneck]

I like Texans as a group but that state scares me. 

I love Texas, both the people and the state.  Largely because of their John Wayne approach to living and govt.  I prefer a state that would rather a citizen defend themself than become another victim.

This is part of the wisdom that our founding fathers had in designing our country.  Different states can have different ways of life while still being part of the greater whole and the people are free to live in the one that best suits them.

[ktmossman]

It seems that, once again, we are taking this thread a wee bit afield... But I must say that, having lived in Texas (Dallas area) for 10+ years and having married (15 years now) an Abilene (Hodges, actually) girl, I'm not really fond of the place.  I would probably consider San Antonio if it was put on me, but beyond that I was not very impressed.   I will admit, though, that they do have good CCW and "castle" laws.

[Lin]

I have found Texans to be great people as long as you speak slowly.  Sorry, that's a joke.  Anyway, most every place has good and bad points.  One can like some of it and is welcome to reject the rest.  This goes for Texas too.  Common sense laws that allow people to protect themselves are on thing I like.  However, I find the concept of "Texas Proud" to be a bit archaic (nice word, huh?) and silly.  I am not picking on Texas.  Heck, I had one of those dumb hats when I was a kid too!  It's just another place with its own ups and downs.  I also think that shooting people merely because they buy a salsa made in New York City, my original home, is just not fair.

[JohnEd]

Lin,

You were doing fine till ya hit my NYC salsa nerve.

Nice post,

John

[NewbeeMC9]

So does anbody have a way to address the bus being a big flag sayin "NOBODY"S HOME" ?

I parked mine in the back and some stuff has grown up, so it's a little less obvious it believe.

[JackConrad]

Our bus stays inside our shop when we are home (out of site).  When we are gone: neighbor has several hog huntin' dogs and she is a better shot than her husband.  We watch therir place when they are gone also.  Jack

[FloridaCliff]

Our bus stays inside our shop when we are home (out of site).  When we are gone: neighbor has several hog hunting' dogs and she is a better shot than her husband.  We watch there place when they are gone also.  Jack

I am very similar to Jack!

My bus is parked on the side of my shop and very hard to see from the road.

My nosiest neighbor would drive by trying to figure out where that bus went, and never came back out.

We also have a neighbor watch the place and also let a few other neighborhood friends know we are on the road, and any activity at our place should involve a call to the sheriff.  We reciprocate the watching when there gone too!

Of course, this is where living out in the country has its advantages, not much traffic, and a strange vehicle or person draws attention.

You can only do so much, NOTHING can stop a really determined thief, just slow them down.

Cliff

[Lin]

One could look into a monitored alarm system.  Something trips and they send the police.