Check my rebuild cost 8V92T

[orfunauto/Darrell]

For what it's worth, I just finished up a contract with a company here on the east coast to perform a complete rebuild on a 8V92 series in one of our USAF fire trucks.  Our mechanics took the engine out of the firetruck.  Cost for the complete rebuild including the turbo's and injection pump, was just over 18K. The company picked up and delivered to our door.  So I would say you got a fair price.  We are mandated to procure at least three bids on any repairs over $2500.00.  The highest was $23.2 K

[belfert]

How do you in frame a motor when it is in a bus anyhow?  Every shop I've talked to has said the motor has to come out to do the rear main seal or any sort of rebuild beyond new injectors.  Did they do all the work through the hatch in the floor?

[Sean]

... What's the labor if the motor was taken out?
...
I was told you could BUY a rebuilt series 60 for about 18-20K. Your price is not far from that and before I would spend that for a rebuild on a 8V, I think I would go the re-power route! JMHO

When we dirted out our motor the first time, I priced this all out, rebuilt vs. in-frame.

The "rebuilt" price you quote is with a core.  If you trade in an 8V92 for an S60, there's an upcharge.

Detroit quoted me 18K for a Reliabilt 8V92.  When I looked at what it would cost to pull the old motor, move all the accessories, and reinstall the rebuilt, it would have come to well over $30,000.

Repowering to a different motor entirely would have been more still, since we'd be looking at redoing the whole chassis harness, in an already-completed conversion.

I think you're very mistaken if you think a "re-power" to a completely fresh engine of a different type can be had for even as little as twice what Basil paid for his in-frame.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong.  Tell me where to go to get a rebuilt S60 retrofitted into my bus for, say, $20K and I will be there next week.

-Sean
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com

[Sean]

How do you in frame a motor when it is in a bus anyhow?  Every shop I've talked to has said the motor has to come out to do the rear main seal or any sort of rebuild beyond new injectors.  Did they do all the work through the hatch in the floor?

My 8V92 has been in-framed twice.  They did all the work through the rear access.  Tore it down to the block, and it got 8 cylinders, both heads, injectors, turbo, etc. all through the back.  Main bearings are done from the bottom with the pan off.  They didn't even remove the access door or the bumper.  I've got a few dozen photos of mechanics squeezed inside the engine bay.

As I wrote earlier, you can't do the crank or crank seals with the motor still in the bus.  Those are not considered part of an "in-frame" -- that's an out-of-frame rebuild.

Conventional wisdom on the 92 series is you in-frame around 250k and maybe 500k, out of frame at 500k or 750k (if you in-framed at 500), and the cycle repeats.

-Sean

[Lin]

That shop was recommended to me by a bus tour and charter company in San Jose.  I think that their shop rate was about $125/hour.  They looked at what I needed and gave an estimate.  They seemed to know what they were doing and to be reasonable.  I ended up having someone else do the work though.

[muddog16]

Price sounds about right!  Jasper did my rebuild and dyno for  19K, plus I bought a newer style block (cooling passages are larger).  I watched a so called dyno at a certified DD dealer as it sat on the floor in their shop and was run in and not on a dyno!  Becareful what you pay for when the company say's dyno......it might must be a run in! Check out their dyno before you sign on the dotted line. 

[Sean]

That shop was recommended to me by a bus tour and charter company in San Jose.

Was that Royal Coach, by any chance?

-Sean
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com

[Lin]

Sean,
     I believe it was Royal, but I don't remember well enough to be sure.  I was calling around quite a bit.

[GM0406]

Basil,

Saw your Eagle there and was amazed to see the condiiton of your coach!  Couldn't see any typical Eagle rust!!!  I don't know much about Eagles, except looking for rust.  I see your coach is sitting outside and Martin said it was going to be dynoed.  Mine is still there, and I will be picking it up soon.  It has taken them a long time to do my coach, but I have found them to be a good group, and I was not in a hurry for the work, so we agreed for them to work on it when they had time.  They have the advantage of a machine shop there.  I saw some of the damage to your engine and it looked pretty bad to me.  I have found all of their employees to be very thorough and they keep the shop clean.  They also have been reasonable with me.  I am sure Martin would be willing to discuss pricing with you, if you have questions.  I have never worked on one of these large bus engines, but just experience with automobile engines tells me this DD work is tedious work.  So at least you know that one of our group here has a coach in there too.  Let me know if you want to go down there together and talk to them, or just call me (408) 307-1593 if you want to talk.  I don't know if I would be of any help.  But I have established a good working realtionship with them over the past two plus years.  Bill Thomas 

[basil]

Yes, they seem to have been good so far, except it took a good 4 months from start to finish.  One reason I picked them is they said they would dyno it when completed.  It seems they have a new dyno that is not working properly, so I have been waiting a while for them to get me the torque curve before I pay the bill.  It has been over there twice already but the data comes out silly...250hp with 2500lbs of torque, both completely off, and incongruent. 

I don't want to beat them up on price...just wanted to check that pricing was fair.  We definitely need people willing to work on our coaches.

It is a great eagle 15, but I have since bought another one that is 45 feet that I am going to spend my conversion time on, so I am not sure what to do with the 40 footer.  With the rebuilt engine it is now mostly mechanically new.  It could be a good burning man bus.  I need to find a group that wants to weld a diesel-fire breathing dragon on top or some such thing.

[TomC]

Many believe that the only engine to replace a 2 stroker with is the Detroit Series 60.  In my opinion, that would be a very difficult exchange since the physical size of the Series 60 is very large compared to a 8V-92TA.  I think a better engine is the Cummins L10/M11/ISM (all the same externally) ranging from 270hp all the way up to 500hp.  It weighs about 200lb less then the 8V-92TA and best of all you can find them in old trash trucks.  If you can find a trash truck with the ISM and Allison 4000 series transmission (most used these) then just buy the whole truck and you'll have everything for a complete engine/transmissin swap.  Better to find a trash truck that has been crashed or that they have taken the box off the back.  Good Luck, TomC

[GM0406]

Tom,  What is he going to get by doing this?  Less weight? 200lbs.?  Or better fuel mileage?  1 or 2 mpg,?  Or more power?  Bill T.

[GM0406]

Basil,  I wasn't suggesting that we try and get the price down.  As you said, it is nice to have a shop that is willing to work on these coaches and have what it takes to deal with big engines and transmissions etc.  Having seen your engine when they tore the head off, I knew it would be expensive.  The question I have is how the heck did this happen?  I am interested in all the work they do there and have been amazed at some of the units that come in.  I just thought that we could meet down there and if nothing else, I would like to see your coach and how it runs.  I thought mine would be ready today, but Martin is not there, so it looks like next week.  Bill

[basil]

Same for me.  Numa says it will be finished next week.  I am out of town until Friday, but I'd love to meet you down there then, or elsewhere if it doesn't work out.

I had put a 12v belt drive alternator on my motor a while ago, so I took the opportunity of the rebuild to change my 50DN to 24 volts for house charging.  Bay Cities couldn't do it, but Ted up at Coach Maintenance switched it and rebuilt it.  The Bay Cities guys are trying to get that hooked up for me now, so it might go past next week.

I'll let you know.

The only other bay area bus nut I know is Sean, and he is rarely here.

[Sean]

The only other bay area bus nut I know is Sean, and he is rarely here.

And even when I'm there, I'm not really, as they say, "all there" 

-Sean
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com