Tour bus crash in Houston

[cody]

Has anyone determined that the driver was drunk or asleep at the time of the accident or is that just conjecture?  Have they ruled out a mechanical failure yet?  Or my personal favorite a car diving in front of it.

[Gary LaBombard]

I was wondering when something like this was going to happen and it is so sad to see that it has.  We can't blame this tragedy on the bus but the operator as we see it now but everyone has to know these buses are not crash tested like they do the cars now.  This is obviously an older Eagle which I know somewhat about but I also know Eagles are not the only buses built with this type of tubular framing.  Some of your HIGH end buses also are built to this design. 

There is not a bus built that could take that impact of that accident and not had severe damage, not one on the road that I know of!  I am sure that the frame rust issues are in that bus and from mine in particular the front end is made of tubing that is about 1 1/2" square and the wall thickness is only about (.100) thick!!  You take a brand new piece of tubing, lay it on concrete and while wearing safety glasses hit it square downward with a 16 lb. sledge hammer.  It will crush!!!!  The force of this hammer is no where near what was used in this accident.  Even if this tubing was all new or "Doubled" like I am doing would not have prevented all this damage that happened.  Again, this bus is not the only one built with that design and of that age and I know that not one converted bus driven on the road drive by us could of had any less severe accident than this one at 70 MPH!  Do any of you on this BB'd really think your bus could of survived this accident?  Just curious!!

Driving defensively, sober, safely, "Slowly", is truly the best defense to prevent this from happening.  Traveling 70 miles per hour just because it has a big engine etc. is ludicrous.  I never drive over 60 even with my darn ole little S&S.  I have tried to go 70 a couple of times and could feel the RV just floating all over you might say and tried to stop just for curiosity to see how much it took at 70 MPH!!  Man, it took several hundred feet to stop dead and keep control.  You guys drive as fast as you want pulling your toads behind and think everyone sees you coming and will make a hole for you, but when I see you creep up on my behind, you go around me.  I could give a crap less how souped up your bus is, I'll get to my destination a little slower than you but I will be doing my best not to endanger anyone else or my family, or ME!!

I will be reworking my entire front end during this summer as the end of my frame restoration / rebuilding will be completed but no matter how much "Double" framing I will do this frame rebuilding and reinforcing will not prevent similar damage as this bus accident at this speed.  With what I have done to my bus I feel my bus could roll over and not be hurt, from the floor level down that is, but a head on collision like this.  Come on, get real.

This is my (.02) as usual, I can't blame the bus for this accident as I see it now but with age of our ole girls we better check them out closer. 

You guys with them big ole 500 HP buses be sure to give me a beep of your horn as you pass me by at 80+ MPH and I wish you all safe travel and those in your path.

Gary

[roadrunnertex]

This is the latest from the local Houston news.
jlv


An officer at the scene of the accident Sunday said alcohol may have been a factor, but Bellaire Assistant Police Chief Byron Holloway said Monday there were no obvious signs of alcohol at the time of the crash.

Police took a blood sample to determine if Navaira was intoxicated, but the results wouldn't be available for a few weeks.

Holloway said the crash was probably a result of driver error or a mechanical problem.

"I think the blood analysis might tell the tale," Holloway said.

Holloway said it's also possible the singer fell asleep at the wheel.

"To operate a bus that size, that weight, he should've had a Class B driver's license," Holloway said.

Video: Emilio Navaira's tour bus crashes

Authorities believe Navaira wasn't wearing his seatbelt, but noted that a seatbelt is not required by law in buses.

Holloway said they don't believe the bus had a black box because of its age, but they are double-checking with the manufacturer.

[roadrunnertex]

The Texas Drivers Handbook
States,
A person who has a Texas Class "C" drivers license can drive a single unit vehicle with a gross vehicle weight
rating of less than 26,001 pounds. Page 1-4 item-3
Also on page 1-7
Exemptions;Persons operating the following vehicles are exempt from a Commercial Driver License (CDL)
Item #4
States- A recreational vehicle that is driven for personal use:

So If your Converted Coach is less than 26,001 pounds GVW you will be OK with a Class "C" if it's more than
26,001 GVW you will need a class "B" Page 1-4 item #2.
jlv

[compedgemarine]

I agree with Gary
I dont think any of our busses could survive a hit like that. that begs the question, what can we do to ours to make them handle a head on impact better? Gary, I would be interested in your thoughts as I have an Eagle also and am at the point in repairs where I can make changes easily. I NASCAR they have found that adding more steel and making it stiffer resulted in more injuries because the impact is not absorbed. has anyone thought about adding the bumper shocks that are on cars and trucks these days? is there someone on here with a better enginering knowledge that could look at a way to absorb and redirect the impacts? It seems that every bus I have seen in a front end impact did not do well. just my $.02.
steve

[HighTechRedneck]

So If your Converted Coach is less than 26,001 pounds GVW you will be OK with a Class "C" if it's more than
26,001 GVW you will need a class "B" Page 1-4 item #2.
jlv

In Texas.  But here in Tennessee, no special license is required for me to drive my bus conversion titled as a motorhome with a GVWR of 36,000 pounds.

[Gary LaBombard]

Steve,
I have not had the time to put the hours of thinking I normally do for every 5 ft. section of my bus for the front section yet of my bus like I have done over the past 6 years now this month.   I cannot really say I have a direct thought of what to do with the front end of my Eagle at this time.  I will do that soon but now that this door is open, I too am very open to any suggestions as to how to beef up our Eagles or any bus if we have a mind to for safety and I will do my absolute best for our personal bus.

I hope those conversions that have been changed such as Bill's Space shuttle could enlighten us how he beefed up his long front end for any impact like this we can consider and anyone with absolute photos will sure help.  I am just looking for ideas to consider as more heads are better than just one and if I get to that point I am really happy with my design I promise to also post all information and photos as I normally do on my web site.

I don't care though what we do, an impact such as this one in this accident would still be devastating but if we do all we can to minimize this disaster then we are all ahead of the game you might say.  Having control of your bus at all times no matter how fast it can go is an absolute priority.  An accident can still happen perhaps through no fault of your own, (cut off, run off the road etc.) but having the speed at a safe travel speed can sure minimize this and also now with the darn fuel prices help make our trips a little more affordable. 

Safety as always will always be my #1 priority, I have so much to learn how to drive etc. but I will when the time comes.  Right now I want my bus to be as safe for many decades after I am gone that I can. 

I am rambling on here now, but if you have any ideas you have incorporated in your conversions to minimize front end crashes that can be catastrophic and you have photos in particular please post this information so we can also achieve it for future use by us all.

Gary

[HighTechRedneck]

Gary, if it were me doing it, I would setup as much energy absorption in the bumper and body panel sections of the front as feasible.  Then build a subtle crash cage (hidden) for the front seat area including strong protection from behind for objects that get thrown forward (i.e. TV's, refrigerators, cupboards, etc). Also, shoulder belts in addition to lap belts are good.

As you pointed out, there isn't much that will help in a high speed crash with a bridge abutment or column.  But these measures could help with lesser impacts.

[Len Silva]

I once saw an Eagle that had run into a bridge abutment right smack in front of the driver.  The entire driver's area was pushed back several feet and the driver survived.  I don't think any passengers sitting directly behind the driver would have made it.

So, I think, if you were trying to design for survival (in a conversion, not a seated bus), I would make the driver's area as strong as possible and intentionally weaken the next ten feet or so.

Len

[hiwaycallin]

... Or my personal favorite a car diving in front of it.

Like this one?
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2008/03/25/driver-charged.html
At least no serious injuries in this case.

[cody]

On 2 separate occasions I've had cars dive in front of me and then hit the brakes to grab an off ramp, both times I've had to hit my brakes hard  to avoid running up their exhaust pipe.  One time I had to hit the brakes and pull hard to the left and am still not sure how I missed that car, I can't understand how something thats 40 ft long and over 12 ft tall can become invisible, or do they think we can throw them around like a yo yo, I just don't know, expiring minds want to know.

[HighTechRedneck]

... or do they think ...

In my opinion, the problem is they don't think at all before starting a maneuver with their car.

[buddydawg]

I was a passenger in a bus crash in 2002.  We were on I-95 and traffic was awful.  The cars would just whip in front of us leaving no room.  It just so happened that a truck pulled right in front of us just as traffic was coming to a dead stop and the rest was history, especially since we were on a bridge.  We pushed his truck into 4 other vehicles, totaled 3 of them.  Luckily no one was severely injured.  We were only traveling around 55 mph which helped us in the injury department. Most drivers do not carry any respect for large vehicles, they actually view us as in their way and an annoyance.

[hiwaycallin]

... Or my personal favorite a car diving in front of it.

Like this one?
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2008/03/25/driver-charged.html

And yet in this case the bus driver was charged. If he's telling the truth then that just ain't right. 

[Stan]

And yet in this case the bus driver was charged. If he's telling the truth then that just ain't right.

You make that split second decision every day when driving. You know that without an evasive manoeuvre, a  collision is inevitable but the evasive manoeuvre may also cause an accident.