Starter Problems

[Gary '79 5C]

Got home from Fla Tues, every thing fine. The "metallic sound" diminished and subsided. Alot of consternation in the meantime. Every thing was fine on the return 1200 mile trip.
Readied the bus yesterday for a short trip, and hit the starter and only a relay sound clicking. Today I had some time to check in and it appears to be the starter solenoid pulling in but nothing else. I did short across the pos term on the starter and the motor winding term and she spun.
I am assuming that I am in to pull the starter and find out why the internal contacts are not making to provide 24 V to the str. windings.

Besides the blocking and chocking, I also sprayed cleaned the area, ANY suggestions I should do OR not do...

I see the three ( maybe a fourth unseen ) mounting bolt and this should not be too bad to remove.
First time on the vehicle, but I will tackle 1st thing in the AM. Once out I am thinking to take to Luke for a rebuild or parts.

Merry Christmas to all, and especially those in uniform, (those here related to those in uniform abroad).

Thanks,

Gary Pasternak

[Sammy]

 Gary, yes, there are 3 bolts securing it to the bellhousing.
Sounds like the starter solenoid is defective.There is a contact disc made of copper that gets pitted and dirty from electrical arcing.You could take soleniod apart and clean,or turn the disc over to buy some time.I'd put a Delco Reman starter in it. No telling when or where it will give it's final breath.
Best place to break down is at home, lol 
Best of luck with your repair.
Merry Christmas and have a Happy and Healthy New Year.
Sammy 

[Gary '79 5C]

Sammy,

Thanks I agree that inside a heated building with tools is mucho better than the side of the road. Hate to ask my wife to short the terms with a screwdriver to "jump" start it...

Any idea as to what a fair price is for a reman'ed ? ? ?
I am too old for the flipping the contact disc over, BTDT on cars.

Thanks,

Gary Pasternak

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

Hi Gary,

You could take it to Lou Biancino on RT. 9 in Seaville, about 4 mi's from your building.  they reman'ed my starter 2 years ago.

If I remember, it was about $185 I think he stocks our parts for Nick at Lion Tours.

Good Luck
Happy Holidays
Nick-

[Sammy]

Sounds like a very fair price. 2 years and still working is a good thing too, lol. 

[Gary '79 5C]

Nick,

I have heard V Good things on that rebuilder.
When I get it out I will take it over and have him have a look.
What did he reman for the $ 185 ? ?

Thanks,

Gary

[Gary '79 5C]

Pulled the starter and removed the solenoid from the unit. The internal contacts were slightly burned and pitted. I can turn the circular disc. and install two new posts which will replace the internal contact surfaces. I also bumped into a rebuild kit for $29.99 on Ebay ?

Any thoughts or am I missing something. The original problem is that the starter solenoid pulls in ( clicks ) and nothing else. I am counting that contacts were/are bad and not enough amps were delivered to the starter motor. Before I pulled the str. I shorted the two large posts on the solenoid and the starter spun freely and strong. I am assuming that all else is fine.
I have a strong tendendency to OVER maintenance a vehicle...

Your thoughts this Eve,

Gary Pasternak

[makemineatwostroke]

Gary, it's your dime but i would take the starter and have it load tested it may not spin that good under a load and a bad spot on the stater will make the solenoid click also FWIW

[Sammy]

I'd still put a reman in it.

[Dreamscape]

I agree with sammy. I lost my starter a couple of years ago, it's a PITA to remove and replace. But I only did it once. Works great now and no worries.

Paul

[gus]

If you jumped across the two primary terminals and the starter spun the engine enough to start it the problem is either your solenoid or the starter relay, not the starter.

Your next step is to either ground the small contact on the solenoid or jump from the battery lead to the  small contact on the solenoid (I can't remember which way it works but think that it is a grounding circuit). (I'm away from home right now).

If the starter still cranks strong that narrows it down to the relay or relay circuit since everything else in the system works.

Since you say the solenoid primary contacts are in good shape then the relay is not getting enough current to the solenoid to fully engage the starter gear because solenoid coils are not fully activating.

This means the next place to look is at the relay or relay circuit which could be nothing but corroded terminals on the relay. Try cleaning them, they are famous for corroding.

And last of all, it could be caused by the starter switch or its circuit. There could be corroded terminals on the starter switch or on the terminals of the connecting circuit boards. On a GMC there are two of these boards and on mine I found many corroded terminals, don't know how some of the circuits even worked?

[Ncbob]

I'd say go ahead and replace the solenoid. Follow the instructions in Da Book because the plunger needs to bottom out in the solenoid.  This is a great learning experience.  The opportunity is out there to spend the big money if this doesn't work...but you won't learn a darned thing that way.  If you've the time...go for it and broaden your horizons.

Remember this.....a turtle doesn't get anywhere unless he sticks his neck out.

Bob

[gus]

There are at least two ways to solve electrical problems;

1. Find out what the problem part is and replace or repair that part.

2. Keep replacing parts until you finally replace the one that is faulty.

Sometimes in using the second method you accidentally clean up a corroded connection and solve the problem when there was no faulty part at all!

[NJT5047]

Low voltage on the "S" terminal will also cause Delco solenoids to act as you describe.
I believe this problem is what Gus was describing. 
You may wish to install a 'slave' solenoid near the starter. 
Low battery voltage and lose, corroded battery terminals, or bad battery leads will all damage the solenoid and starter. 
Had to convert from air starter (NJT thing eh?) so I bought a used starter from Caylor's Supply 6 years ago for $ 125   bucks.  Solenoid and all. 
It's been working fine since.   A good starter should last the life of the bus (remaining life?).
Check the "S" voltage when the starter is engaged (after it's reinstalled) and verify that there isn't a problem voltage drop. 
The master, wiring, and starter button could any cause that sort of a problem. 
Often when the solenoid won't go on a Delco starter, 'working' it a bit will get the engine started.   Still time to make some repairs. 
Cheers and Merry Christmas!  JR

[Gary '79 5C]

Good Morning All,
I might have left out some info, The contacts have some contact surface remaining, but without seeing a replacement I cannot tell how far deteriorated.
I have 24.6 V @ the starter, and the start button contacts do not seem to drop voltage. Actually the starter and all its connections were tight and very clean. I have not encountered a previous problem.
Must go to work this AM but will include a trip by Luke's for a look-see. I think the place to start (no pun) is to replace the contacts/solenoid.
I would have suspected a bad spot on the armature if this has happened before. Still maybe true. I have that on a 83 Mercedes, but that starter is worse to replace.

Thanks all for your comments and wisdom, and yes to succeed you first must try. All my friends can not believe I am doing this work myself, but they do not visit here and experience the support.

Gary