Bus steering

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

MOVED FROM "Re: BUSNUTS IN THE TECATE, CA AREA??? "


loadera10
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Posts: 7


1960 Flx Hi Level

« Reply #3 on: Today at 11:07:16 AM »

I have tried to adjust the steering box, to no improvement. It is adjusted as far as possible. If you tighten the adjustment the steering wheel gets too tight to move...

[JohnEd]

Loader,

In that steering unit is a very large gear like/ piston like item.  To that "gear" engages a arm with a gear on it.  I know this is vague...I have never laid eyes on your unit I am sure cause i have only worked on auto stuff.  I have a great big CAUTION for you, however.  That gear usually sits with its mesh point in the middle.  That is where road vibration and unevenness causes the most wear over time....in the center.  If you adjust for gear lash in the center you will have a bind situation at the ends of the movement which corresponds with a fully locked wheel in a hard turn.  As you turn the wheel away from center you move into parts of the gear that have minimal wear.  The leverage advantage is HUGE and a firm twist on the wheel can impart thousands of pounds of force on the internals of that box even without power steering.

The instructions for doing this adjustment call for the wheels to be off of the ground or the steering box to be on the bench.  This insures that when you rotate the steering box after doing the adjustment you will be able to feel/detect any bind.  I did this adjust on a VW and before it got to lock it bound up so badly it would have cracked/burst the steering box.  I finally figured out that I had to adjust the thing while it was at lock and then check it through it full range of travel.  That cracked or BURST steering box is the point I wanted to make.  It is a Chinese curse to wish that someone live in "interesting times".  I can think of no situation more "interesting" than driving a bus at speed when the steering box uncouples.

Sorry if this is wordy but it is so out of concern and my lack of skill with the mother tongue.

Your fellow bus knut,

John

[Tony LEE]

"There's no way you'll ever convince me that MCI deliberately designed play in the steering system of any bus they ever built unless you
can actually produce documentation from MCI stating such."

I've been told that Americans don't understand irony. Guess it's true.

[HB of CJ]

For whatever it is worth, my '74 Crown has the Ross (TRW) steering box with an unknown type power assist system.  Victors VT-42 right hand pump powered by two (2) Gates belts off the crankshaft.  The mechanic who inspected the old girl told me the steering box looked "very new" and was about "$2500.00".  I do not know if that was an $accurate$ value description or not.

Anyway, the point is that the Crown has about one-half inch of play in the steering wheel at rest and seemingly no play at all driving down the road.  Lucky I guess.  You can turn the wheel at speed the formentioned one-half inch and the coach changes lanes.  Turn the wheel the other way and she changes lanes in the other direction.  Very very tight with very powerful power assist.

Driving home, the power steering pump failed just South of Sacramento.  Since I had failed to bring along the proper tools, (!) I just cut both belts and drove her home with no power assist.  At speed I could hardly feel any difference.  Only driving slowly did the lack of assist become apparent.  With power assist, you can still safely drive the coach with no pump.  Your decision. 

[Utahclaimjumper]

Barn, I changed out the stock steering on my 06 with a NIMCO take out sheppard, been trouble free for 8 years and great to drive.>>>Dan  ( tip: use a flameing hacksaw to remove the old stuff and replace the 'U' bolts with new).>>>Dan

[Barn Owl]

Utah,

Good to hear that. I hope mine will work as well. I am planning a trip out your way with the bus sometime in 2010 to visit some family. We need to do lunch or something.

Laryn

[dparker]

For what it is worth -- not attempting to speak as an expert just relating the experiences that I encountered with my old MCI mc7 --

it had a Ross gearbox with a hyd cylinder for assist -- basically the box had 2 valves that basically told the cylinder how to help the steering, on my box these valves were activated by the main shaft moving up or down as the steering wheel turned due to the forces imparted by the drag link from the steering wheels, i had this "wander" or "mci shuffle" more than 120 degrees of travel before the wheels on the ground moved the other way - it was going to cost me (I called several shops between 600-900) $750 for a rebuilt box and most of these shops indicated that i was never going to get the "play" out of this type of box -- as it need that movement to operate the valves -- so I got an integrated box with a zero degree acting box (like on your car), steel, a machined mounting plate, new drag link, bushing, etc (~$1200 for all of it) -- the box was off a newer bus -- took a bunch of cutting - welding and structural stuff (my brother a mechanical engineer helpful here) -- in the end i would have paid the $2000-2500 as i had more than 12 hours of direct time in this project -- BUT the bus now drives like a big van -- i have less than 2-5 degrees of play and while not recommended one finger will drive the bus down the road -- my 8 year old son can turn the wheels parked with the bus idling with no noise and i kept the same pump in the old DD.  If needed I can find the name of the guy that i got the box and drag link from he was quite helpful and shipped it all to me on a truckline .... he was from the midwest ... super nice guy

david

[gus]

HB,

My '54 4104 steering is pretty much as you described yours except my pump is gear driven. I like your belt system  better because of the pump failure advantage.

I wonder what would happen if my pump failed, guess I could still drive it home as long as there were no clashing mechanical things in the pump?

Both our systems are just manual steering systems with hyd boosters so we can never completely lose steering due to power steering failure. The only thing we lose is easy low speed steering. This is a real safety feature.

[HB of CJ]

Gus, my Crown came that way I guess because they wanted to protect the kidds at all costs, plus the factory (or soosss I was told) would hang just about any type of steering the buyer wanted.  Specifically speaking, when the power steering pump failed there was no doubt about the matter.

You could hear the thing screaming from the drivers seat and I pulled over quickly and opened the side engine hatch.  Pancake mill admidships.  The heat from the pump blasted on my face from 3 feet away and oil was over everything.  No doubt the thing had failed.

Would a failed pump screw up a gear drive installation?  Dunno.  I did read here once that hydralic oil did get into an oilpan during a failure, but I don't recall if it was a seal failure or the entire pump.  Funny...I would like to have a gear driven pump myself sosssss the two (2) crankshaft pullys would be available

for a possible future dashboard/front coach airconditioning compressor like what theboggiecat did with his Crown.  Too much windshield glass area running West at sunset in August for a rooftop A/C(s) to properly cool me and my front passengers off.  Another subject.