Waste Vegy Oil and Bio thread.

[niles500]

I think the best thing we can do as a group is to support the people who are experimenting with VO,WVO,and BIO-D - and G** forbid they have a catastrophic failure - lets then try and put them back on the road  having benefited from their experience - MORE POWER TO THE RISK TAKERS AND EXPERIMENTORS out there - FWIW

[Len Silva]

Here is an idea I had, just off the top of my head.

Since a Detroit returns far more fuel than it uses and heats it up in the process, how about using a small tank (3-5 gallon) in a closed loop located close to the engine.  This would be fed from the main tank using a lift pump and float valve. Here is my quick sketch.  It does not include the selector valves or diesel start and purge etc.

FWIW

Len

[Chaz]

David and Niles,
  I feel the same way as you two. I can think of a few relative examples but my typing (actually "Hunt and pecking" ) time is limited right now. But you're right. (in my book)
  Len,
    As far as that diagram goes, well....... I hope somebody who knows can comment on it. I'm not sure I know what you are doing. Sorry! But if it's to utilize the already heated oil, I get where you are coming from. I had planned to just drop the return oil back in the tank where the oil comes out. That would help warm the oil in the tank, especially where it's coming out.
  I "think" a person has to use a heating element (probably a heated filter or such) just before the motor to make sure it's up to temp from the very get-go. I've read where the improper heating is a major cause of problems. But utilizing the heat you have already - to me - seems like a good idea.

  Busy day,
     Chaz

[white-eagle]

hey guys, as you know, i am not the foremost diesel expert, but bio-diesel seems to me to not be in the same heat-it-up-first catagory as the vo and wvo.  there is a place about 30 mi away that i get there bio everytime i'm going that direction. 
i just pump it in the same tank as the flying j fuel.  i've had no problems that i have seen, and it does seem to me that the engine was actually higher horses and less fuel on my trip!  the bio i was using was supposed to be from a farmer's coop that mixed about 5% into the regular.  they said they varied the mix up to 10% to try to keep the price close to the same or less than regular.

i'm interested in using bio or wvo also, to save a few bucks on the road.

[Jeremy]

Below is part of an article taken from BusandCoach.com (UK bus industry site), which might be of interest.

Jeremy

For six months, Stagecoach will be running eight buses on a Kilmarnock local service on 100 per cent biodiesel, manufactured from used cooking oil and other sustainable sources – a move which answers criticisms that the creation of bio-fuels involves the destruction of natural habitats and sees potential food sources being used to fuel vehicles. Sometimes, of course, it does – hence National Express's decision earlier this year to back away from biodiesel – but Stagecoach is working with a Scottish-based bioenergy specialist, Argent Energy, which creates fuel from waste food industry products.

Stagecoach currently uses a blend of 5 per cent biodiesel in over 4,300 buses, covering around 60 per cent of its UK fleet. But this is claimed by Stagecoach as the first UK trial of 100 per cent biodiesel by a bus operator.

The eight buses in Kilmarnock – Euro 2 specification MANs – now have two fuel tanks, one of which holds 40 litres of diesel, necessary to start the engine, while the other holds 148 litres of biodiesel. The engine runs on diesel for 10 minutes when it is first started up in the morning, then switches automatically to biodiesel. After six months the performance of the trial vehicles will be assessed, both in terms of the economics of the operation and in relation to engine wear. One engine will be stripped down to see if the use of 100 per cent biodiesel has had any adverse effects.

[Chaz]

Great info!! Thanx Jeremy!
  That sounds like a good test to see what/if there is some/any adverse effects of Bio. If there is, it's great to know in this manner as opposed to us bearing the burden. And with the general consumer, it's not usually a good "test". PLUS, if there should happen to be problems, they can be addressed just as when they took lead out of regular.
  Manasst,
   Stick around. HOpefully we will ALL be more enlightened by the end of this.

I can't say from experience, and anyone can make claims, but I understand from some of my reading that the engine actually "smooths out" a little bit on VO. That may be also true of Bio too.  I have also read that there is an increase in power and I have read there is a decrease in power. Both claims say that it was "only slightly". Probably a moot issue. Again, there needs to be a "formal test" much like the one Jeremy spoke of.

Times are a changin,
      Chaz

   Lunch is over, back to work! 

[larryh]

Chaz

As you know I ran WVO for a tad over two years and WVO will soften any thing made of rubber and some cheap plastics. I spent a bit over 2500.00 in setups on WVO and never could get over the thickening of the WVO in colder weather anything around 47 degrees and less  and when warm it looked as clean and clear as brand new oil.

For Lens question of chicken fat or any animal fats that is what causes the thickening
of the oil the only thing that removes animal fats is the bio-diesel making of using Lye to break it down along with the menthenol.

I have ran approximately 3500 gallons of bio-diesel mixed with 5% reg diesel and find the use is about the same temperture wise as reg diesel.

My cost have risen from 65 cents per gallon to about now 85 cents per gallon for making the bio-diesel.

My processor which I just sold to a gentlemen in Texas was based on The  Appleseed processor.

I put on hold making a processor to put in bus as I will be installing a 250 gal caged plastic tank in a bay as my bio-now will be supplied by a company i'm doing consultant work for the construction of a new plant here in AZ.

Just heard Indio CA also getting a new plant. So not to discourage you in your use of WVO but do it your way and keep up on the latest and bests way  but don't be taken in by the snake medicine you read all the time.

The Eastern Washington farmer group I was with now has a little over 5,000 vehicles running a straight bio-diesel and produced a bit over 15,000,000 gallons of bio diesel last year. No you can't buy it anywhere it's a closed group we have came a long ways with the bio-diesel over the last ten years.

LarryH

[Duallydude]

Well Im all open to new ideas..I run 4 dually fords here in florida and with fuel over $3.50 a gallon I agree something has got to give..You figure each truck fuels up every other day with $120 of fuel..So you figure $360 a week in fuel x 4 truck and hell Im going in the poor house..Even tho the real estate market has dropped alot Im still making a decent living but If I can run my truck on WVO or Bio Im all ears..When I first heard about the idea I was against it but the more I shut up and listen the more Im interested..Plus I bought the old 1957 Golden Eagle last week and it holds like 130+ gallons of fuel and I filled it up before we headed home..I almost passed out when I put $450 in it and didnt fill it up..It was changed over from a 8v71 to a big cam 400 in 2005 and the pump is turned up So she drinks the fuel..So anyone thats done the conversion keep us informed..With enough test and enough success I will convert for my wallets sake

[Homegrowndiesel]

Chaz
Keep Up The Good Work

Bill

[Jerry32]

That bluebird that chris converted seemed to work out fine. Looks like he has the basic parts for a system if he is will ing to sell them. I know he is a member of this board.  I know a welder who can do aluminum welding and want to have him build a tank for me. I want to put the heated pick up in the tank and have the heated lines to the engine and fuel filter. Chris has a cumputer controlled system but could done manually too. Jerry

[Chaz]

Hey Bill,
  Can I bug you sometime?? I'd just like to chat again about getting this done. I had emailed Chris (the guy who converts cars from the other thread we had going) but haven't heard back.
 
  Jerry,
  Which Chris are you talking about? Is it the guy from the thread in the Help section? I'd like to chat with him again. He was very knowledgable and a good dude. I just don't want to bother him if he's not up to it or was burnt out with posting here. (I feel his frustration)

  Duelly Dude,
   Hang around or check out some of the other sites I posted for more info. I'm not sure what you use your trucks for, but making your own bio may be a better idea. At least if I was going to do a car or truck, I would go that route. There are pros and cons either way, but in smaller vehicles where you do shorter trips, etc., it seems to me to be a little more viable. Bus's just seem to be the perfect candidate for VO because of the long trip and more storage aspect. (different impressions may vary  )

  Thanx Larry,
  Yeah, the heating is an issue. But hopefully not insurmountable. I will need to figure out what rubbers/plastics I need to replace and use. Hopefully I can post a run down.
  Congrats on the bio work!!! That's very cool. Getting all you want would be AWESOME!!!!! I'd drive my bus up to pick up a pizza!!!!!!  (I'm already rather well known around here for various things, that would REALLY get'em talkin!!! LOL  )

  Thanx guys,
       Chaz

[Homegrowndiesel]

Hey Chaz

That's not bugging me, Just don't call on friday or saturday after 5 pm as we are hands on with our RnR GRILL n BAR project. I Lost your # in my old phone. My cell # is 302-745-1192.

Niles, thanks for the props.

Glad to see a continuing thread here, I lurk at alot of forums, and enjoy sharing with my fellow bio-busnuts here.

I have alot of filtered WVO available, 5 restaurants worth in Southern Delaware, if anyone needs some. I intend to use all of it eventually but will share.

Ok Dallas

Nuts Bolts Opinions,
Lets start at the tank, I have stored WVO in steel, plastic, aluminum and SS and not had any problems.

I have used my copper tube in the heater hose set up for 5 years now with good results.(I plan on using pex on the next one) Some people say copper tube is to be avoided but I have not had any problems.
I have used all the wrong rubber hoses for 5 years to see the results, the hoses are soft and are shedding parts of rubber. ( those pieces showed up in the filter, Thanks Ron) The new fuel injection hoses, synthetic do not have problems, only Natural rubber.

You need a heated fuel filter.

180 degree oil does not compromise the cooling effects of the fuel in the injectors.

Hot oil is needed to ensure complete proper spray pattern and combustion, therefore not building up engine ruining deposits.

I have used a pickup truck 6 way valve to switch between diesel & WVO for years now. Ron will be testing shortly to see if the volume is enough for his 8-92

I advocate a coolant heated heat exchanger to heat the Wvo just before the engine to ensure proper heat & atomization.

Enough for now I have to get to work.

Bill

[Jerry32]

Chaz, why don't you just go to his website and forum and contact him. Jerry