Changing round headlights to square ???

[Busnut83]

Does anyone know if the square lights on the 85up mci-9 are the same size as the round??? I'm thinking of replaceing my 83 mci-9 front lights with the small square lights??? Also I wonder if the rear will Interchange??

[NJT5047]

If you are talking about 102A.. headlights, they are totally different from an MC9 assembly. 
MC9 square headlights are a conversion kit that includes new panels.  Same for the rear 102 style tail lights. 
I bought mine at IBP, $500?..for both sides and headlight assemblies. 
Round headlights are much taller than the square "Peterbuilt" style square headlights. 
They are not too bad to install...there's not much sealing to do.  Just pull off the trim at the air intake, and drill out the rivets.  The new panels will have to be trimmed to fit the rearmost dimension, but the rest is rivet on.   Even the pre-drilled rivet holes matched.
I'll try to post a pix.  You'll notice that I've replaced the upper turn sig panels too....I don't remember, but I believe I paid $500 or both the upper and lower panel (and headlights).
This pix shows a before and after....Bill's unmodified NJT is identical to mine.  My cap and front sheet metal have been changed. 
JR

[NJT5047]

BTW, if you want to see both a 102A3 headlight assembly and MC9 assemblies..both round and square, check out Gary L's pix from Palmetto Cove (Kyle's NON-Bus Rally).  There are large, good quality pix in the Oct, 07 albums.   Jerry Campbells 102A3 is pictured with the headlights that you are (I believe) referring to.  My bus (Harold "JR" and Terri) is also shown square on the front...sorry about the geezer standing in front of my bus!  
Bill Haga's OEM front end is also posted in the albums.  Bill's and my bus are twins...both 87 MC9s.   They were identical.     
A 102A headlight assembly could be fabbed onto an MC9, but it's gonna take a good bit of fabricating to make it work.  An MC9 has a vertical panel, and 102s are slanted. 
102 rear tail light panels will interchange with an MC9...as long as you use the panels.
Retrofit kits are available for rear late model tail lights too.  Both in LED and 
incandescent are available. 
JR

[busnut104]

I installed Freight liner head lights in my MC8 I used the org. panels, The first one took a lot of time with a die grinder but the second went fast because I then had a pattern, You can see them on my bus, it is in the Mak classified. the one on the top and in the center. This way is a lot less then 500 and I think they can out very nice. I like the dish in the org. panel.     

[ChuckMC9]

Not to diminish the normal rectangular headlight idea, but I sure like the front of the MC9 from Memphis that's a couple of listings below the one mentioned. Looks like a custom D3 front, in stainless rather than the fiberglass kit? Man I'd love to find a way to do that. Find a burnt-out D3 and chop 6" out of the width?! LOL

[RJ]

Busnut83 -

I'm going to ask a couple of somewhat stupid-sounding questions, but there's a method to the madness:

Do you drive a lot at night?

Do you want to install the smaller rectangular headlights for SAFETY reasons, or for simply STYLE reasons?


FWIW & HTH. . .

[JohnEd]

Russ,

I hear you comming with that question.  My thought was that if the coach I purchase has those square headlights I would want to convert to 7 inch round so I could get my Hella's installed.  I believe the little squares were known to have poor performance and fewer options than the 7.  I am not putting the squares down, really I'm not....they look cool and modern.  My ideal would be a set of dual 7's with one set being yellow and the other clear.  80 watts of fog light with a high and low beam....now thats cool.

2 cents

John

[NJT5047]

Busnut83 -

I'm going to ask a couple of somewhat stupid-sounding questions, but there's a method to the madness:

Do you drive a lot at night?

Do you want to install the smaller rectangular headlights for SAFETY reasons, or for simply STYLE reasons?


FWIW & HTH. . .

I'm not Busnut83, but I'll take a shot at the question.....STYLE!  Definitely.    
I've got square headlight and cannot tell any difference driving at night.   Maybe it has something to with the halogen bulbs?   I believe that the square lights are brighter...when compared to the OEM rounds.   My high beams are definitely better than the old rounds. 
As John says though, there may be something better in round that is considerably improved over the square?   I  like the looks of the square headlights.  Don't do "nostalgia."
Could be related to the age and corrosion of the OEM buckets.   Ground corrosion is probably a large factor in the quality (or lack thereof) of round lights.   

JR

[JohnEd]

JR,

My Hella's have replacable bulbs so if they get a little "dull" I can pop in a fresh pair.  The new Sylvania Stars are very much brighter than my old Halogens and those were very good performers to begin with.  The Syl are rated at 55 Watts but they shine like 80 Watts according to the mfr....at least.  I have always elected to run a power line from my bat and let a 30 amp relay control the voltage and us the signal from the switch to control the relay.  I get the alternator V across the bulb if my ground is good and that extra 2 volts is all the difference.  I read once where the 7.5 inches allowed more precise focus due to the larger size of the lens but I think the low light loss lead crystal glass and the super reflector are also very important.  The rtest I read showed profound differences in the quality of the glass in different lights.  You can also buy a "slightly higher wattage" bulb, that fits, from your local motorcycle shop.  Even up to 110 Watts and that is a sure ticket.  The more precise focus of the Hella lets me push the envelope a little and nobody is flashing their lights at me so I don't appear to be a bother.

As for being dated?  I don't give a fat rat's a**.  I'm old!  Besides, some of the new 2008 trucks I have seen have the 7.5 pounds installed stock.  The old Brills looked great to me so I guess I am dated.

Thanks,

John

[gumpy]

If you decide to replace your round lights, I would be interested in the parts you remove (cans, mounts, trim, etc).

I'm keeping mine, and after hitting a couple deer last year, I could use the spare parts.

craig

[Busnut83]

Just for style.... Yes I do drive at night alot?

[NJT5047]

Just for style.... Yes I do drive at night alot? 

Go for it!  You'll like the looks!   While you're at it, you can lose those round turn signals too! You'll be able to see just fine at night. All the KWs, Peterbuilts, and Freightliners seem to get along OK. That's where the lights come from.
JR

[RJ]

Busnut83 -

Since you're interested in changing your headlights for styling purposes, rather than SAFETY reasons, then my comments would not be worth sharing.



JR Lynch -

All the KWs, Peterbilts and Freightshakers get along OK because the US DOT is too myopic to realize better is out there.



FWIW. . .

[NJT5047]

There's gotta be some engineering studies (headlight ISO's?) showing the capabilities of the various lighting designs?  Both high and low beam. 
That would shed some light on this thread.  Where are our engineers when we need'em?  Niles???
The trend seems to be to smaller, more focused and more CP lighting...witness the projector lamps on many vehicles...most buses included. 
The only lighting that I'm aware of that's significantly deficient, was the narrow square Chevy pickup and van headlights.   
Generally, anything that greatly improves the headlights distance, such as Hella, may be illegal in some useage.   
While I'm unaware of this occurance in buses,   the heat from  higher output bulbs will damage  plastic headlight housings   This is a common, and expensive problem with cars and motorcycles headlight housings.   I saw a post where someone recommended changing the wattage of the headlight bulb.  If your headlight housing is glass and metal, no problem, but if it's plastic (polycarb), could be a problem. 
With higher output headlights, comes a point to where you blind oncoming drivers, even on low beam.  That's a problem.   

JR


   

[DrivingMissLazy]

Russ has previously posted some great ideas but they were ideas for safety and seeing better, not for cosmetics.
Richard