Long yarn first day.

[maria-n-skip]

After being on this board a short while and lurking before. I have eluded to my experiences
Mostly from the first trip on threads where seemingly appropriate. I have become secure
enough to relate most of the first trip home. I do this because of all the good and proper advice
that has been published that I didn't listen to.

Rule 1:  Have it checked by a knowledable mechanic first.
Since I have been working on diesels in one form or another most of my life I thought no biggy. (wrong)
I had been looking on ebay occasionally and bidding. Always seemed to lose out in the last two seconds.
From the learning curve I figured it out and fell in love with the one I had to have. (letting emotion over rule
common sense) The first warning sign was that the tranny needed a solenoid and would be fixed by delivery.
I won oh Lord what have I done now. Called the PO and started to work out the details. Second warning
the owner was frustrated so he was going to put in an Allison instead. I thought great I am more familiar with
Allison's and know nothing about ZF.

Rule 2: If it isn't properly documented service records, receipts etc..... you know the line
This tranny would have around 20k miles and the diesel  only has 120k miles. Things were sounding better and better.
The PO stated that the tranny ordered had got lost in shipment  and was being routed back. another week wait.
We are at 2.5 weeks when the tranny finally showed up.Week before getting the bus I am talking to the PO and he really is having
second thoughts would I be interested in a PreVost he has. NO thank you. A little over a week later  it was time to go get the bus.
9 hours out 9 hours back. Piece of cake. Leave here Thursday night drive all night so we would be  there at 9:00 in the morning.
We finally arrive at the bus at 10:00. Not much time for the PO was heading out on a flight in  2 hrs. Quickly go over the bus.
No Allison now it was a ZF 4 speed. Still low mileage(no documentation) Oil spot on the ground  small.
PO reply from another bus probably. Engine starts right up no smoke sounds great (refer to rule one) After a quick lesson
on were everthing is time to pay and get back on the road. Look at the title and the bus vin tag. The years don't match. Not happy
but I had already learned that the year on the title doesn't alway match year manufactured. Time to pull out. one of the PO's
comments were the throttle sensor isn't right on but will work fine he will send me the instruction when he gets back and the
retarder was disconnected.  Should have been major flags. We leave.

Rule 3: Until you learn the bus watch the gauges! (like a hawk)
  Going down the Interstate in a metro area following my daughter and at the time future son in-law when they come back on the
walky talkies that there was smoke coming out the back of the bus. As I pull over the warning buzzers start. In a panic I am now
trying to figure out what is the next step. I'm on the shoulder the temp is now through the roof so I shut it down. I am in a construction
area on the outside of the cones separating me from traffic. A good place as any. Turn on the flashers and smoke starts rolling out of the panel.  Turned off the flashers and I am now not in a panic I am mad. Call the PO and vent. He told me where to check and he is just ready to  board his plane. Go to the back of the bus and pull the back door open. The fan belt is off. No biggy just sit here and wait for things to cool off.  The temp finally lowers so I go to start the bus. Batteries are dead. Well that's it call a wrecker time. Call the wrecker and they will be there  in two hours (out on another call)  so we sit waiting. The son in-law was checking what we had in the trunk. He closes it and that deer in the  headlights look crosses his face. He just locked the keys in the trunk.

Rule 4: Keep tools with you at all times. (at what level is up to the owner)
Tow truck shows up. Do they have the tools to unlock the car. Yep no problem. An hour later the car is unlocked. This is at big rig prices.  They hook up the bus, unhook the driveline and down the road about 35 miles and $600 plus we are dropped off at the truck stop. Before they  left I checked to see if they could to my bus the next 600+ miles. They said no problem and the cost would be around $x,xxx. Well  at  least i had a plan B now. In the truck stop I buy just about every tool they have, two new batteries, gallons of oil and antifreeze. We finally  sit down to eat for the first time that day 8:00 pm. After we eat I start checking things out closely. Put in the 2 new batteries. At 10:00 pm  in the dark I am under the bus. I am skinny enough so with everything down and no air I can still get under there.  I am in about a gallon of  oil in the dark new flash light in my mouth putting the driveline on. Finally time to sleep. 1.5 blankets, cold and next to a refer unit going  on and off all night. Thus the first day and had only gone 45 miles.

Day 2 was not much better. I'll post it when I have gotten over this one.

The one thing my daughter just told me is what she learned was to always bring extra underwear on a trip.

The PO is a member of this board and has never posted. I have worked very hard at not making this a slanderous. If you have issues
you know my email.


Skip

[Ncbob]

Ouch, Skip!  But as you say...the advice is here, for those who are thinking about buying, to read and digest and make decisions.

I guess it's just human nature to learn the hard way.  I'm talking about my life...not yours.

Methinks we get caught up in the adrenalin rush of having something new that sometimes our heads jump the timing mark and the next thing we know...we're in deep doo-doo.

I hope your tale falls on some understanding ears and your fate will save someone else some of the heartache you experienced.

NCbob

[bobofthenorth]

WOW

All I can say is we got SOOOOO lucky I can't believe we did what we did and got away with it.  We broke every rule and - four years down the road - I think we got really good value for our $$.  List of rules broken:
- paid 100% up front not only with no mechanic inspection - but without seeing the coach at all
- went to pick it up with no tools - not even a jack-knife cuz we were flying
- got 0 service records - previous owner sprung an extra charge for the service manuals when we showed up to p/u the coach.  That's the only thing that sticks in my craw 4 years later - I should have told the SOB to stick the manuals where the sun don't shine.  Can you imagine?  I wrote him a very large cheque, wired the money to him sight unseen and when I showed up to p/u the coach he hit me up for $140 for the service manuals.

In hindsight we could have done better by waiting but how were we to know that the Canuck $$ would go from 65 cents to 1.03 in those four years.  I actually bought the money on a 73 cent dollar because the best wisdom at the time was that 73 or 74 cents was a market top.  Its a subject for another thread but its frightening how much the exchange has "cost" us in "value" for our coach over the last 4 years.  As far as the coach is concerned I don't think we could have done any better at the time - and we could have done a lot worse.

[zubzub]

Sorry to hear your pain.  I'm heading fro a similiar trip in the next 2 weeks so we'll see.  Re dead batteries, if the charging sysytem is not working...this is an old road trip trick of mine, send your duaghter to a walmmart or whatever national store, get a small generator preferably one that puts out 12V (if your bus is 24V) get a 24V charger and a generator.  Keep the packaging, return everythinbg when you get home.  You can do this with any national store Home Depot whatever,  especially if they have a 30 day no questions asked policy.  Some may have problems with the ethics of this, I have found that the liberal return policy helps gain my loyalty evry one benifits in the long term.  When I was starting out in my business soemtimes I needed a tool that was too expensive for a one time use and i didn't have the cash for it.  So I would buy and return, in the end I ended up often buying the tool., usually from the same store i used to borrow it from..  Just a get me home trick.  Patrick

[Stan]

zubzub: I hope I never have to do business with you.

[bobofthenorth]

Some may have problems with the ethics of this,

Maybe less people than you think - probably only those that have personal ethics.

[maria-n-skip]

Zubzub (Patrick): A lot of the posters on this board do fine on there first trip. I pray yours is in that category.

Thanks NCBob that is the main purpose. If one thinks they are immune I hope that fate smiles kindly on them.
Bobofthenorth: I would guess that statitically your story is in the majority. The manual gotcha would sting.

You know I really wouldn't call it pain but more embarrisment. I know better and you can only side skirt the
  laws of statistics for so long. Fore warned can be fore prepared.

  One of the most positive things out of the first day is I got to see my now son inlaw in an adverse situation.
To me you can learn more about a person when things aren't good. Through out he maintained a positive
attitude and was there to help the best he could! He learned to keep better track of his keys

  I'll do day 2 and 3 in a day or so. 3 days to go 600 miles was not my best endeavor for sure.

Skip

[superpickle]

Holy Moly Skip 

I guess I was VERY Lucky as well... 

I do hope its all Minor stuff and easy to deal with...
But, the guy could have told ya about the belts mabee coming off.. Sounds like he Knew it happens.. .

Paul... 

[Dreamscape]

Skip,

Look on the bright side, no one was injured! Other happenings are just part of this crazy hobby we all have. Some just fair out better than others, but theirs is just around the corner! 

I was lucky, my first trip in our Ealge took me from Shelby Ohio to Burbank California. The only problem I had was it was soooooo cold, slept in the bus at night and had frost on the windshield in the morning, November 2003.

I only hope the next post on the rest of your journey will have a brighter side.

Paul

[FloridaCliff]

Skip,

Wow, that really stings...Sorry for your disappointment and glad your sharing to help others.

One of the stories I tell about my original purchase is that, I would probably have not bought the coach I now own,
If I knew then, what I know now.  It wasn't anything big, I'm lucky, it was just a lot of little things that I am now wiser too!

Any Newbees and Wannabees, being careful and getting a prepurchase inspection is well worth the cash.....

Not trying to scare anyone, just trying give some FREE advice....

Load em up, move em out......

Cliff

[Brian Diehl]

Hey Skip,
I'm glad you are finally posting your story.  I've wondered exactly what went on!  Waiting for days 2 and 3!  ......

[maria-n-skip]

Thanks guys,

  This may be rather cathardic but reading day one a couple of things stick out to me.
1. Reading knowledge isn't a substitute for hands on knowledge.
2. Something so simple as a fan belt coming off could cause so much problems. I have
     been thinking about putting an rpm sensor on so I'll know quicker.
3. Fatigue makes a bad situation worse.

I should be done with day 2 & 3 tonight. Day three was short and only one issue.

skip

[Tim Strommen]

Skip your trip sounds a lot like mine was...

Wanted a Gillig Schoolie, PO was asking $600 (had an S&S mechanic go over the rig and he signed it off for ~$200 labor - nice), went to get the cashier's check as requested by the PO, when I returned - he said a friend had told him the bus was worth $1,700 (I told him that he could stick that... well you get the idea).  Same night, I was ticked - browsing the net for something to calm me down and found the Lane County Oregon Fleet vehicle auction was just starting to take bids on 20 busses out of their auxiliary fleet.

I thought, "Sweet!  A transit (102" instead of 96" for the schoolie), thats 40' has a REAR engine, Allison 740HT automatic (G.F. was concerned about driving a heavy stick...), and the bids were starting at $800-$1,000."

George at LTD ensured me that the bus was road worthy enough to drive down to the S.F. Bay Area upon pickup, so I dropped a solid $1,576.27 bid on all 20 of the busses (they allowed a "priority selection" so that I could pick the best in the event of multiple wins).  Three days later the auction ended and I had won #820 (~600,000 miles on the chasis, documented rebuild on both the engine and transmission around 300K ealier).


I invited a friend to come with me to pick up the bus, we both took AmTrak, and a fairly wide assortment of tools (I thought).  The train hit a delay due to track work (4-hours), so we pulled into Eugene around 4:45 (keep in mind we were picking up the bus from a county yard - most government sites have strict 9AM-5PM office hours).  We hailed a taxi, and hauled a%% to the yard - arriving at 5:01PM.  Fortunatley a nice lady who was leaving for the day let us into the building and walked us back to George's desk.  Mind you, I had emailed George and told him that I planned on showing up that day (the cashier's check for the bus arrived at 12:00noon - confirmed via cell phone from the train) - but he was a bit surprised to see me so late (I think I screwed up his dinner plans for the evening ).  It was getting dark, so they walked us out in the yard and I got to see the bus for the first time in person.

The Mechanic on-site opened the doors, turned the ignition knob and said, "Huh..."  Apparently the door lights should have come on and didn't.  He pressed the start button and ".............."  (Oh boy...).  He said he'd be right back and three minutes later he was wheeling out a cart with 4 8D batteries on it (not a good sign).  He hooked it up the the batterry pack on 820, and sparks flew like someone was using an oxy-acetylene torch (not good) - mechanic giggled a bit out loud and reversed the jumper clips (at this point I'm starting to wonder about the "It's okay to drive back" comment).  He climbs in turns the knob and the door lights come on.  He says "S%@#" and walks towards the back of the bus.  He opened the access panel on the right rear of the engine compartment and crawls in.  I hear a few clicks and he comes out and walks back to the front ad says "Aha! Yeah, the Air shifter doesn't like to stay in Neutral when the air pressure is down" (Oh boy, I've been here ten minutes, and I am seeing the immediate maintenence costs mounting).

He presses the start button and the engine cranks but won't turn over.  He comments "These ol 2-strokes sometimes need to be cranked, then let to sit for a second while the heat warms the cylinders" (Oh great - what you're telling me is this thing either needs a block heater or the one it has is not working... more $$$).  He waited 20 seconds and gave it another shot from the rear control panel, and the engine slowly sputtered to life (at first barely keeping ahead of the starter motor).  He had to lean on the air throttle to get enough fuel into it for it to kick in the turbo and get enough compression to run by itself (oh man...)

He got it running, so I went back to talk to George about the service records (this was the first time I had a chance to look over them).  He handed me a 3" thick folder (filled with one-page mechanic reports) and I jokingly said "Is this it?"  He looked hard for a second then said, "hold on".  He came back three minutes later and handed me two more 3" thick folders The first for the body/interior, the second for the transmission - including all of the fluid sample reports thay had done since they bought the bus in '84.  The first folder he had handed me was only for the engine .  After briefly flipping through the folders I asked "Where's the title?"  George looked at me strangely, "Oh we don't have that here - you need to go to the county office to get that" (CRAP!... CRAP! CRAP! CRAP! CRAP!)

It's now going on 6PM.  Daylight is gone, the bus was in an unknown state of fueling (no fuel gauge), and the clock was ticking on my time off from work (I had to be back at work the next day at 1:30PM).

I have a breif discussion with my friend and we decide to roll the dice.  No license plate, no temorary permit, no title, and maybe only enough fuel to get to the county line - or less.  We were going for it (much to George's amusement, and against his advice - my previous experience with Oregon state troopers was of "zero tolerance" and we were breaking a lot of rules...).

We thanked George and the mechanic, and headed out of the yard.  My friend was flipping through the chassis/interior service records, and as I was pulling to a stop at the yard's exit ramp said to me "Hey, they have a comment in this report from two weeks ago that the front left brakes get stuck on if you push the brake peddal too hard".  (I'm thinking to myself - Oh no...)  I took my foot off the brake and (Damn) pushed it too hard and the brake was stuck on that wheel (the steering pulled to that side when I gave it some throttle).  I pumped the brakes a few times and it popped loose (whew...).  Now out into Eugene...  were am I?  We had the GPS running on a laptop, which was getting power from an inverter which I had (too) hastily wired into the 12v feed in the breaker pannel.  The wire came out of its crimp lug and the GPS died...  not knowing where I was, I pulled off to a side street - which turned out to be a one-way residential side street with one outlet around a tight one lane 90-degree turn (40 foot bus, 25-foot wide lane, 90-degree turn, oh this'll be fun!). After one back-and-adjust, I had negotiated the turn and I pulled off to check the inverter hook up.  The whole breaker came off the panel because of a fracture in the power busbar (oh fun! - electrical corosion... probably why the batteries were near death).

After getting the inverter hooked back up, and the GPS coming back up from a cold start (and some very odd looks from the people in the house across the stree - who had probably never seen a bus on their street, EVER), we got going - 7:15PM

We pulled into the first gas station with diesel and put exactly $50 in to top off the 125 gallon tank (well there's some good news). Got in and drove until my friend needed a pee break (Grants Pass rest stop).  I turned the ignition dial to shut off the headlights, leaving on the parking/clearance lights - engine stops... (low batteries, questionable electrical system, hard starts - I'm really concerned now)  Apparently the ignition dial had an "open" for the shutdown solenoid power between running with headlights and that position which is why it didn't die while in the yard (dutifly marked in the service logs - but not fixed... ).  I quickly tried to start it.... "click, grrrrrrrr..........." - not even enough juice in the batteries to crank it once right after being run for an hour of freeway driving.

Called AAA.

An hour and a half later (almost 9:00PM), tow truck shows up to give me a boost.  Tow truck is a Ford F350 - with a 12volt electrical system - bus is 24volts he says he can't jump me (somebody kill me... please!).  I suggest to the tow truck driver that he connect to each battery separately for about 20 minutes to give a little charge to each, and them hook up to the lower 12-volt battery for the final boost.  He does that, 40 minutes later we give it a try, "Click,turn, turn turn...   rumble"  Engine starts.  Tow truck driver loads up and starts to drive away as I'm turning the dial from the off to the run-with-headlights position, I accidentally overshot the detent and dropped right back into the dead-zone for the shutdown solenoid - engine stops again.  My friend jumped out of the bus and ran after the tow truck driver - fortunately getting his attention.  He hooked back up for another boost, but this time, instead of the cranking I heard the sound of a dentist's drill - the solenoid that engages the starter gear to the flywheel decided to fail as it seated from the last start attempt (and with that I commence head banging on steering wheel).

I try whacking the solenoid with a hammer to see if it's just stuck or if I'm screwed - turns out to be the latter.  Tow truck driver offers to drive us to a local motel - we buy him coffee and dinner for the kindness and hit the sack until 6:00AM when Southern Oregon Diesel opens (I believe that was the name of the place - it was four years ago...).  They had a field mechanic and the starter with the right (24) voltage in stock (luckily it's a T-drive, or the rotation would have been reversed).  We tell them we'll meet the tech next to the only LTD bus in the southbound rest stop at Grant's Pass.  He shows up with the correct starter and pulls out the old one.  Then he tells me "Hmmm, the yoke on this is oriented funny" - he went back to his work truck and opens his tool chest to look for the star driver needed to rotate the yoke and exclaims "Always the one you need shows up missing..." (I'm pretty much in histerics already by now, this sends me into an uncontrollable laugh...).  He says he has a spare at the shop and he'll be right back.

When he returns 45 minutes later he has a big smile, promptly pulls out the new starter from the cab with the yoke correctly oriented and has it installed in 5 minutes.  All the while he has his 24volt electrical system dumping the "sweet nectar of electrical life" into my aged batteries (four years old by the Sharpie date on the side now visible in daylight).  We turn on the ignition and hold our breaths while I hit the start button - "vroom!" turned right over after soaking in 18degree weather overnight (it snowed lightly as well - in hindsight I'm glad I didn't have to drive through that...)

We got on the bus and followed him to the shop to settle the bill for the parts and labor, and continued on our way (at 10:00AM).

I'm white knuckled at this point and with no registration, tag, title, or insurance I blew the rest of the way down to the South Bay area in CA - passing 7 Oregon State Troopers, and 6 California Highway Patrol (including one commercial enforcement truck on patrol).  Aparently no one noticed the lack of tags because there was so much dirt under the County-exemption plates that it left the distinct contrasting ghost of the previous registration in the white paint .


Point is - I knew a lot about the bus I was buying (Gillig, the manufacturer of the bus I bought is located 10 miles away from my home - and my friend used to build them ), but I still got caught by the things that I had little to no controll over - all compounded by the incomprehensible rush I was in (I would have liked to have had a week to take the bus down to CA).  When picking up a bus for the first time - especially one you haven't seen or had inspected, my recommendation is to allow for 4x the time you think you need to complete the move, make sure all your paperwork is ready before you even leave to pick up your new sporty ride (including your required temporary moving permit!!!) - and go into the drive expecting to spend up to $1000 just to get it home.


In the end you will probably remember every detail about that day(s) when  you picked up the bus for the first time, and you will probably look back on it with some amusement.


Cheers!

-Tim

[belfert]

My 1600 mile trip home was fairly uneventful compared to some of these stories.  The only mechanical problem I recall was engine overheating problems.  I ended up spending almost the whole day (and $300) at a Detroit dealer in Youngstown, OH.  The only thing they could find find was dirty air filter.  They said the rest of my trip was pretty flat and I would be fine and they were right.  My overheating problem ended up being a combination of plugged air intake, failing water pump, bad radiator, and bad thermostats.

I never did figure out why most toll booths are so damn narrow!  I remember pulling up to one toll plaza and no trucks were in one particular lane.  I figured out why as the toll booth had about two inches to spare with a 102" bus.  I think I scratched the paint it was so narrow.

The other issue I has was driving around in Pennsylvania trying to find a house to pick up a generator I had bought from someone on BNO.  I almost wrecked the bus going under a low bridge.  I had to back out late at night.  Lots of low bridges in the area from the Northeast Corridor rail line.

I thought I could get home in three days and I ended up getting home 5 1/2 days later.  I think I planned to be back at work on a Monday morning and didn't get back until Wednesday.  My boss was fine with it luckily.