Propane or Electric

[Ray D]

For fires, I have seen more electrical fires than propane fires, for the propane leakage problem, there are propane alarms, and they are  confirmed regularly that they work when we are in city traffic.  What are the thoughts on this from you guys?  It is time I made a decision on which way to go.  It takes a lot bigger generator to go all electric.

Thanks,
Ray D

[tekebird]

i prefer all electric

[Jerry Liebler]

Ray,
   The need most likely to influence generator size is air conditioning.  I choose minimum propane, so I only have a gas cooktop.  I have seen several seriously damaged RVs with propane refrigerator fires.  Even though a propane refer gives very long boondocking capability I chose an electric refrigerator.  By shopping for energy efficiency and adding insulation and big house batteries I'm able to quietly boondock for about 5 days.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120

[pvcces]

Ray, to give you some of the information that you are looking for, one 65 pound golf cart battery can be translated to about three ounces of propane, in terms of stored energy.

To us, the right sized generator is just big enough to run 2 rooftop air conditioners, if it is hot enough to need them. Most of the time, when a generator is needed, a small one will be more efficient and more effective.

If you couple these ideas with solar panels, generator use can be really infrequent.

Do the math for 1/2 gallon an hour for 24 hours, as some RVs have been set up. That's over thirty dollars a day for elelctricity.

The problem is definitely worth some thought.

Tom Caffrey

[Tony LEE]

First thing to determine is your camping habits. Staying at powered campgrounds every second night - or all the time, as many do -- will require a completely different approach to boondocking (bush-camping in Oz-speak) for weeks at a time as I do.

Despite the historical disadvantages of 3 way fridges, the modern ones if properly installed (which is rare) have good out-of-level tolerance and if the T rated units are available there, give good performance in hot conditions. That needs to be balanced against continuing costs of propane.

A good solar setup is expensive but if properly sized will supply all loads except continuous air-conditioning  and the only future cost would be for battery replacements.

As mentioned in other posts, you are going to need a generator anyway if you want A/C and for the times when inclement weather lasts longer than the batteries but unless your rig is all electric, doesn't need to be large.

Personally, I can't stand even the quiet inverter generators going all day in close proximity, but given that eventually I have to sit there for ten minutes airing up the bus with a noisy 8-71 on fast idle, I can't complain too much.

I've got 660 watts @ 24V nominal of solar panels and 580AH 24V house battery system with the major use being a 220Litre two door 24V compressor fridge, Washing machine, a couple of laptops and a satellite TV system and haven't had to run the generator for months. Cooktop, griiler and HWS (propane+mains electric) are propane and use about 25 lb of gas a month. A small Webasto oil fired "furnace" handles the winter conditions which are relatively mild with occasional frosty nights throughout most of Australia. Currently the engine alternator is kaput so the solar keeps the starter battery topped up as well. A 1500W inverter handles a small microwave and a 24V to 12V supplies items that aren't available in 24V

We don't have a dishwasher, ice-maker, built-in vacuum, 42" plasma screen, surround sound home theatre, Jacuzi or espresso machine though so you can see our lifestyle is pretty primitive and our energy requirements are reasonable as a result.

[jjrbus]

 Some like all electric coaches becuse LP is dangerous. Like nobody died from electric? Properly installed elctric will not kill, well properly installed LP will not kill. LP can leak and kill you, well electric can leak and kill you! Most RV fires are caused by 12 Volt.
If we look at what our use of the RV will be we can make a good decision. If you will be boondocking alot solar makes sense. If you could crosstie a bus solar system to your house then then you could really justify the expense.
If you are going from RV park to RV resort all electric works well. However for most people we  will be doing a variety of things. So a combination of power sources is the logical choice.
The savings on a household type fridge over an RV type will help offset the cost of an inverter and batterys. Propane  works well for cooking and hot water and is efficient. Saving on generator run time when not hooked up. I also prefer cooking with gas and the water heater is LP and electric so there is some backup. A propane furnace works well, but gulps a lot of fuel, so I stay out of cold places. In hindsight i would use a webasto type heater with infloor radiant heat.
I do little boondocking so solar would have been a waste of money. Also I did not need to buy an expensive inverter, to do what I need to do. I have a 6.5K generator but with the inverter and propane rarely use it.
There really is no right way, just what is right for you..

[captain ron]

I have 99% electric right now but do have a gas cook top and a large propane tank mounted in my bus. I like gas for heat, cooking and hot water. It's more efficient than electric in a bus. I have a 5000 watt inverter 6 batteries and a neighbor hater in my bus. When I first got the batteries I could go for 5 days but now only 24 hrs. I'm very happy with the balance of propane/electric in my bus or at least the planned balance.

[JohnEd]

Propane gets my vote.  Even if you don't do much boodocking it is good to have that capability.  I switch my water heater to electric when in a park.  A lot of my cooking is with a microwave in a park and gas when no connected to shore.  My refer has a 115 element for the park.  I heat with space heaters in a park but my Suburban is a great furnace.  Remember.....no compression fittings in the propane lines...only solder and a compression to connect to the appliance.

Flexability and options!

2 cents,

John

[WEC4104]

Personally, I'm a big believer in redundant systems. I like options, options are good.

I have a propane cook top and oven. But I also have a microwave, electric griddle, and electric coffee maker.  I can also move outside and use a coleman liquid fuel stove, a gas grill, or charcoal.

My water heater runs off propane or electric.

For heat, I have a forced air propane furnace, a vented catalytic heater, and two electric space heaters. (But really wish I has a diesel fired system)

In general, I really like having propane available. I don't have large house batteries or any inverter, so the propane gives me the ability to boondock with minimal generator noise time, as long as A/C isn't needed.   On the other hand, electricity is included in the cost of most campground sites, so using pole power is essentially free.

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

Personally, I'm a big believer in redundant systems. I like options, options are good.

I have a propane cook top and oven. But I also have a microwave, electric griddle, and electric coffee maker.  I can also move outside and use a coleman liquid fuel stove, a gas grill, or charcoal.

My water heater runs off propane or electric.

For heat, I have a forced air propane furnace, a vented catalytic heater, and two electric space heaters. (But really wish I has a diesel fired system)

In general, I really like having propane available. I don't have large house batteries or any inverter, so the propane gives me the ability to boondock with minimal generator noise time, as long as A/C isn't needed.   On the other hand, electricity is included in the cost of most campground sites, so using pole power is essentially free.

I'm with Wayne on this one too...
Redundency makes you universal.  We really never know exactly how we will ultimately use our busses until they are complete.
If only someone would make an efficient/safe LP air conditioning system. Hummm.....
Nick-

[TomC]

I was going to go all electric until I priced out a Princess electric range and also what an Aqua Hot cost.  Hence, I have a propane stove and propane furnace- both of which are next to each other with the propane tank directly below for a short gas line run.  Been very pleased with the setup.  For hot water I have 2-10gal electric water heaters from Home Depot.  One is plumbed into the next with the final water heater wired through the inverter for hot water going down the road without the generator on.  Good Luck, TomC

[tekebird]

all of our buses have electric marine water heaters with heat exchangers  for free heat going down the road.

after a drive you can expect hot water for 4 hours or so after shutdown.

electric appliances are more expensive that the propane or three way version....but they can be had at bargin prices if you know how to internet shop.

my MC-8 had an antique electric cooktop...which when  redoing the counters I replaced with a glass cooktop......600+ dollar cooktop was had for 145.00 through a marine supplier (past year model)

[HB of CJ]

Hello RayD..

Yeah, we are in kinda the same situation...if I decide to do the coach conversion, I also must decide on either diesel/electric or propane/diesel/electric.  Advantages and disadvantages either choice.

For me my life style is the determining factor.  Have done a lot of boondocking at a dry camp or no camp at all, and I have found having to only consider one (1) type of fuel to be important.

With a 100% diesel/electric one only needs to worry about diesel fuel, even tho it is now more expensive than cheap gasoline or about the average as propane which varies widely month to month.

For me the overall difference in fuel costs is not that important.  Having enough water/holding capacity is just as important--actually more sooss as I run out of water/holding before fuel.  Go figure.

With the plans and calculations now in hand, I have found that the size of the APU (gen set) does not differ that much between propane and diesel electric.  With the new invertors available, one can....

....size the gen set smaller than before and use the batt bank thru the invertor to start the heavy loads.  My concerns are more directed at having everything work at high altitude and temps.

The calculations show that the determining factor is the amp hour capacity/watts of the battery bank.  Batteries are heavy and they have to be put someplace where they are accessable but safely....

....out of the living compartment of the coach.  They also need to be mounted in such a fashion that they can be watered (if you use that type) plus be able to be flushed in an emergency.  Stuff happens.

At first the plan was to use the T-105 type golf cart battery.  Small enough to handle.  Now they have maintenance free types which would be better on my lower back.  Better but more expensive.

Finally, I have a personal problem with propane.  Ex-fire service.  My experiences may not reflect the overall safety of propane, which generally is excellent.   Good luck with your choice.

[TomC]

Yes gasoline maybe less expensive than Diesel, but remember that Diesel has more BTU's per gallon and a Diesel engine can sometimes get 50% better fuel mileage than a gasoline engine.  Good Luck, TomC

[prevost82]

I went with a house fridge, 3 burner propane stovetop, convection / microwave oven /w range fan, slide-out propane barbeque outside and unlike Tom I bit the bullet and bought a Hydro-Hot and glad I did. This setup work good for powerpole camping or boondocking.

Ron