Any suggestions to reprime a Series 60?

[belfert]

My bus started last night, but I only ran it for 30 seconds to a minute before I shut it down.  Today it won't start.  I'm pretty sure I lost the prime.

I replaced the primary fuel filter a few days back, but apparently it did not get full of fuel like I thought.  I removed the primary today and it was down a good inch or two.  The secondary was down a little bit when I removed it, but I might have spilled the fuel getting it off.  Yes, I shut off the shutoff valve after the secondary before I touch ed the filters both times.

Any suggestions to get the prime back?  I talked to a Series 60 mechanic I know and his only suggestion was to be sure both filters are full and then pull the return line at the head and if fuel flowed there when cranking then reconnect and give it a shot of ether while cranking.  If no fuel there then he recommended a tow to a shop.

[buswarrior]

Trade in that mechanic!!

What fool mechanic recommends a tow for a priming problem???

Ask for no more advice from that guy.

As noted in other posts, you want to add another valve ahead of the filters too.

Any pipe plugs in that primary filter housing?  I use a garden sprayer with regular shop air fittings screwed in to fill everything, crack the same in secondary to let air out, remove, open valves and start.

Immediately run at higher RPM to be sure you are getting full fuel flow in case there is a little air left in there, and run for a couple minutes to be sure all is right with the world.

30 seconds would be too short a time, me thinks.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[bobofthenorth]

There's only one sure way to prime any diesel without a booster pump.  Get yourself an old truck inner tube and cut a circle about that big around the valve stem - probably 10" diameter sort of.  Then find a big hose clamp and strap the valve stem to your fuel filler.  Loosen your final fuel filter, plug your whistle valve with your finger and air up the tank until fuel starts dripping out of the filter.  Spin the filter up tight and give everything another blast of air.  Then start her up.  

[RJ]

Bob -

Interesting tip!

The trick, nowadays, is finding an inner tube!!

[belfert]

There's only one sure way to prime any diesel without a booster pump.  Get yourself an old truck inner tube and cut a circle about that big around the valve stem - probably 10" diameter sort of.  Then find a big hose clamp and strap the valve stem to your fuel filler.  Loosen your final fuel filter, plug your whistle valve with your finger and air up the tank until fuel starts dripping out of the filter.  Spin the filter up tight and give everything another blast of air.  Then start her up.  

Will this hurt the fuel pump?  There was a recent thread here about priming a 2 stroke and it talked about not putting an electric priming pump before the primary filter as it would destroy seals in the pump.

How many PSI pressure should be used on the tank if I do this?

[belfert]

Yes, I think that mechanic is a little crazy to suggest towing for repriming the engine.  If anything, I would call a mobile mechanic before towing.  I don't think Coach-net should or would cover a tow in this situation.

I had no idea there would be a situation with losing prime or I certainly would have left it run for more than 30 seconds when it did start.  I figured it would start just as easily in the morning as it did the previous evening.

[belfert]

More reasearch shows the button on top of my Racor 490R fuel filter assembly is actually a self priming pump.  I'm going to try cracking the secondary filter again and then using this pump to be sure the line between the filters is full.

[bobofthenorth]

You are probably talking about 2 or 3 PSI tops - no where near enough to hurt anything, including the fuel tank.  By the time you deal with the multiple leaks you are going to have in the system (around the chain on your filler cap for instance, your thumb isn't going to be a perfect seal on the whistle valve) you will not end up with a whole lot of pressure but it doesn't take 50 PSI to push the fuel through to the filters either.

[Busted Knuckle]

Brian,
The 60 series is much more forgiving than a 2 stroke! I have restarted them just using either LIGHTLY to keep them running until they picked up fuel from the tank on big trucks that have run out of fuel quite a few times b4. As a matter of fact I was driving one the first time, that the gauge was inaccurate and it ran out as I was getting off the interstate to go to the Flying J in Gulfport, MS. I was right in the middle of the road coming of the exit ramp blocking it both directions as well as the ramp. So I grabbed a can of either from the side box and sprayed it in the air cleaner next to the driver window while cranking & praying it would start. It did and I just kept LIGHTLY spraying the either in it as I drove it at least an 8th mile of the ramp to the fuel pump. After fueling I had to buy a new can as I'd used all of the first can getting to the pump! But after a minute of using either LIGHTLY it roared to full speed from the pedal! I never evenprimed the filters! Don't try this with a 2 stroke, it won't work! (and don't ask how I know this either! and I won't tell on myself!) FWIW  BK  

[Sammy]

I use a pressurized fuel can - something like BW has suggested.I made one too.
I prime both filters first.
Hook into fuel system at secondary side, force fuel to injectors while cranking,works great.
Find a new mechanic - one that suggested a tow belongs working back on the drive thru at McDonald's.
Good luck. 

[Busted Knuckle]

I use a pressurized fuel can - something like BW has suggested.I made one too.
I prime both filters first.
Hook into fuel system at secondary side, force fuel to injectors while cranking,works great.
Find a new mechanic - one that suggested a tow belongs working back on the drive thru at McDonald's.
Good luck. 

Yeah probably the one who suggested the either too! LOL! Huh Sammy? LOL! I know I should be ashamed of myself for even mentioning it, but at least I was honest in what I've done in a pinch! LOL!   BK 

[Sammy]

BK, honest is honest, I have a can of starting fluid in my road box too!, LOL 
That's for when it's too darn cold here to start foolin' with the fuel lines.
Regards to you and Dallas.
Sammy 

[belfert]

The mechanic who suggested towing is the brother in law of a friend.  I haven't seriously considered towing it for this.

JD over at C&J Bus Repair recommended the pressurize the tank method with both filters cracked, but he didn't know what pressure to use.  They normally wrap a shop rag around a blow gun and use regular shop pressure, but they also lose a lot of air due to leaks around the rag.

I better get outside and get to work on this.

[Skykingrob]

Hey Brian
Let me start with saying I can't tell you if it is technically right but I can tell you an experience that I had and how it was "fixed".
We had an 89 40' Newell with a 300 gal tank. I was changing the filters in my shed and lost the prime on an 8v92 TA. The factory had welded a valve stem to the tank as part of the factory build. I called the factory and talked to the shop forman. He said to tighten down the fuel fill nozzles on the tank a tight as possible, then inflate the tank to 80 PSI by setting the air compressor at 80 PSI and leaving it attached. Then crack the filters until fuel trickled out, not run out just trickled. Crank the engine till it started and when it started and ran, though rough, shut the compressor off and close the filters. Eventually the air purged and the engine smoothed out after about 5 minutes or so. Once it was running smoothly, let the pressure off the tank. Only two words of caution: 1) it is best if two people do this operation but I did it myself so it is possible and 2) watch that fuel fill cap when it releases, keep your head out of the way.  When telling me how to do it, he related a story about a fellow employee that got a nose job from the flying fuel cap!!! BTW, I was very careful not to lose prime after this incident and the other thing I learned, you just learned, let it run following filter change for sometime, maybe 15-30 minutes just to make sure.
Good Luck Brian

Rob
91 LeMirage XL
Missouri

[bobofthenorth]

I don't doubt that you may have got lucky and pressurized a non pressure vessel to 80 psi once without blowing it and yourself to kingdom come but you shouldn't be suggesting that anyone else try to duplicate your feat.  80 PSI is serious pressure - you don't want to be putting that to a fuel tank ever.  And you don't need anywhere near that much pressure to move fuel from the tank to the pump.  15 PSI (atmospheric pressure) is enough to lift water from a 20 foot "shallow" well - that's a lot harder lift than anything we have to accomplish when priming an engine.