towing with the toad engine running

[JohnEd]

How many people do this or know of people that do?  What are your reasons for NOT doing this.  Anyone know of any legal problems?

Thanks all,

John

[Jerry32]

They must do that because of the auto transmission? I would be afraid the engine would quit and still the tranny might be damaged. I don't know any reason that it is illegal. Jerry

[wrench]

  I did it with 2 different mercedes,a 1978 240D & 1982 300D mercedes diesel, twice from FL to NH & once FL to Malone NY. The last time on the way back from Malone,  after 10 miles the coach would take speed, told wify to check the car(had no camera) "SMOKE" she said!.  Pull over & steam coming out under hood, rad is busted, engine is off. Pull the car on block & disconnect drive shaft & resume trip to FL. Turn out the plastic tube at the oil filter came off= no oil, overheat.  Tranny is good(still using it) engine need a cylinder head. I beleive one need a camera to monitor the car any way. The 240D blow a tire once & a guy was chasing me to warn of the flat( no camera).
  I dont see problem towing that way, but a camera is a must.
          wrench

[gumpy]

One of my friends towed his van that way. Don't think he ever had problems. I think he's upgraded his toad.  Not sure what he's towing now.  Maybe a suburban. He's a member here, but haven't seen him around much lately. Maybe he's lurking and will chime in.

Not something I'd do.

[JackConrad]

Since I made a rock guard for the front of our Toad, I would be concerned about overheating. That is why we tow a Grand Cherokee 4WD. Transmssion in park, transfer case in neutral and we are ready to go. Jack

[TomC]

One of our truck delivery services uses the Ford sm pickup with automatic and they just leave the engine idling the whole day with no problems, except extra fuel burned.  I have the Ramco drive line disconnect on my Mercedes 300 Turbodiesel that works well-as long as you spray is liberally with silicone lubricant everytime you use it. 

I am in the early stages of designing a motorhome based on a Freightliner truck that I can carry my car on the truck, but not inside-picture a car hauler ramp on the back of the truck with the living quarters overhead.  Then with the the truck chassis, I can pull a 28ft or so trailerable cabin cruiser to explore all the inland waterways we have.  This won't happen for a few more years though.  But it is fun to design it.  Good Luck, TomC

[WEC4104]

I got to wondering about this question from an electrical point of view.  If the toad has a separate set of trunk-mounted tail lights, it is a non-issue.  But what if the wiring is set up to use the vehicle's own tail lights?  With the toad engine running, the full electrical system, including alterator and daytime running lights (if so equipped), will be active.  I am thinking this might lead to some issues to address, especially if the bus has a 12 volt (not 24 volt) system.  For example, if the toad engine is started before the bus, what will happen when the bus is cranked over?  Any chance the bus will draw power from the toad (over wires not rated to handle the current)? 

I am sure all of this could be handled with correctly located fuses and diodes, but it might be something that has to be considered.   

[JohnEd]

I never did consider the likely hood of having a flat on the toad.  That would be a problem.  Same goes for a trailer or a dolly or a toad without the engine running. 

I installed "idiot" light senders ganged to my oil sender and found an extra port in the water sys.  Those senders powered a back-up alarm and bright light in my dash through an "ALARM ON" switch.  I leave it off till I get the engine running and hten switch it "on".  Lose oil or go overtemp and you find out quickly .  I installed this same system on my toad except I used the ground to power a relay that powered a set of air horns I installed on the toad .  After starting, I swich the system on and rest assured that if the engine quits or overheats for any reason....I will be "advised" of the event in a timely manner .  No clue how to handle the flat tire issue other than the back-up camera idea.  Then I could blame the copilot for lack of attention if things went awry .

I refuse to stay home and be completely safe.

In good humor inspite of it all,

John

[WEC4104]

"... No clue how to handle the flat tire issue other than the back-up camera idea....."

Of course there is always the prospect of using a tire pressure monitoring system.  TPM systems are standard on all need 2008 automobiles, and have been appearing in some cars for a few years now.  Some just have an idiot light on the dash, which would give a possible location to tie into for a signal to the bus.

[JackConrad]

"... No clue how to handle the flat tire issue other than the back-up camera idea....."

     We have a Pressure Pro tire pressure monitoring system that monitors all tires including our toad.  It allows us to manually scan all tire pressures at any time (sitting still or driving) as well as sounding an alarm (showing which tire is low) if pressure drops 12.5 % .  When we are towing our small trailer with the golf cart, we remove the senders from the from the front wheels of out toad and place them on the trailer wheels. We can easily move the monitor to the car for "day trips". 
     We have not had a toad tire issue (and hope we never do), but Nick can tell you what damage results from a flat while towing. I have heard of toad fires resulting from flats while towing but have not personally known anyone that this happened to.
    Another risk when towing is accidental application of the braking "break-away" switch. This would cause the toad to be towed with the brakes on and could easily lead to a fire. Since we used an M&G (pneumatic operated) toad brake, we installed a 3 PSI pressure switch in the air line at the M&G brake unit. This is connected to a flashing red LED on the dash of the bus. This serves 2 purposes, it lets me know the M&G is functioning when I apply the brakes and if the Break-away" switch should  accidentally be activated I will have a flashing LED in front of me.
    Over the years, we have had 2 blowouts on buses we have owned. The first was driver's side rear tire on our 4106 many year ago. The collateral damage was a radiator and fan blade (about $850 in 86'). The other was a driver's side tag on our MC-8. Collateral damage was a muffler, exhaust pipe and muffler mounting straps. In both cases the collateral damage was about the cost of our TPMS.  Jack

[JohnEd]

Jack,

Way better than a video camera.  I had heard of these quite awhile ago but I thought they were out of reach at that time.  I will take another look and probably have one in a month.  Any advice on brand or most reasonable source?  Thank you very much and knowing your experience is worth a lot.

Appreciatively,

John

[JackConrad]

   We use the Pressure Pro system because we switch the senders to our trailer. There is another brand called Smartire that requires each tire to be broken down and the sender attached to the inside of the rim. The senders are more secure, but cannot be easily switched from vehicle to vehicle. We are very happy with ours, I am installing a system for a friend in his S&S as soon as he receives it.  We got ours from RV Safety Systems. The owner is Jim Shepherd (a fellow busnut and BB member with a S-60 powered Eagle) www.rvsafetysystems.com. I don't remember for sure, but I think the monitor that goes on the dash is around $190 and the senders are $50 each. Total cost will depend on how many senders you buy. You can buy the monitor and enough senders for your bus and add additional senders later for your toad if you want to do it that way. Jack

[justin25taylor]

Wow,
I though I was the only one idled my truck while towing it. I have a 96 F-250 with a service bed that I tow once in a while. It has a C-6 automatic that cannot be towed 4 down without removing the driveshaft. I don't tow it often enough to invest in a driveline disconnect. I mainly use it when picking up buses for new owners. I can fix minor problems as well as have a way to run around for parts etc. Then I tow my truck home with the bus. (Or drive it if the bus craters)

I too thought about the engine overheating or dying while in tow. My truck has an idiot light labeled "engine" it is different than the "check engine" or "Service engine soon" light that warns you of a DTC. The only time the "engine" light comes on is if the oil pressure drops or the coolant temp gets too high.
I wired a relay with a switch into the "engine" light circuit to the horn and headlights.
If the engine dies, overheats, or looses oil pressure the horn will honk and the headlights will come on. I can see/hear them with the back up camera or mirrors.

It sure does ease the mind.

Best,
Justin

[JohnEd]

Justin,

Great minds...great minds!

Jack,

Thanks!  I will buy from Jim Shepard unless I can get a bead on a used system.  I like the idea of a board member also, good point.

John