Front spoiler/air dam for mileage

[jackhartjr]

Just read maria-n-skip's post about the wall at the front of the bus.
If you don't beleave it check this out.
If you take the wind out of the equasion a bicyclist can go really really really fast.  After the Tour DuPont several years ago in Winston-Salem, NC one of the European National teams rode back on Interstae 40 from Winton-Salem to Kernersville, NC doing 60MPH behind the team van!  What a site!
Jack

[Chaz]

Thanx Jack.
  The over heat thing has been on my mind. I know that the "flap" underneath causes the negative pressure to help cool the motor, so I was a little concerned. I guess experimentation is the only way unless someone else knows. 
  Chaz

[tekebird]

I read the thread.

Feder skirts on buses have been tried before....most are taken off as the cost/maint issues far outweigh the benefit.

Streamlining and aero/ground effects have been done for decands on testbed trucks...they do make a difference....but once again  Cost Benefit.

Not sure how much air dam one could put on a bus and still have a functional approach angle

I beleive on race cars it is more a function of reducing lift rather than speed or economy. not to mention they are doing it on a controlled road surface in most cases

there is some airflow under the bus but it is no more detrimantal to that going down eaither side or over the roof.

Chad on your bus, put an Eagle cap on it...thats the best thing you could do airflow wise.

[buswarrior]

ok.

check out what the truck folks are trying with the backs of the trailers. Elongating the sides, sill, and roof, so the door is recessed. Also a variety of rounded shapes hung on the back, Airtabs are already been mentioned. Try trucknews.com or todaystrucking.com

As noted in previous posts, the pull of the sucking vacuum at the rear is a big component that may offer more fertile ground for improvement than the nose.

Walmart in particular is working on their fleet.

A word of caution: be sure your efforts at closing up the front don't starve the brakes of the air flow they need to cool off!!!

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[NewbeeMC9]

This one comes with a spill kit and emergency containment since your tank will be running over with all the xtra fuel your bus is rejecting.



http://www.turboshield.com/class-a.asp  At a minimum Chaz, you should at least get some entertainment and interest out of it.

[Kristinsgrandpa]

Chaz, since an air dam has to be fairly close to the ground to be effective, a 2 piece unit might be the best approach.

The top piece would just clear rhe ground when the airbags were deflated, and the lower piece could slide up and down on mechanical linkage/cables using a fulcrum and lever principle,

As the bus settles, the linkage would raise the lower air dam proportionately and keep it at a pre-determined distance from the ground.

All the measurements could be done like the constipated mathmetition.  He worked it  out with a pencil.  LOL

Seriously, it could be done.

Ed

[Chaz]

More good stuff, cool!

  Tekebird, this is what I'm talking about:

I am looking for things "I" can do or perfect or improve or build or whatever. "I" want to help the bus community!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have got a freaking GREAT deal of info from all of you guys and I just want to do what I may be able to to help.
  Sure, I can do all those things to help "ME", but as I said earlier (which most people just don't "truly get", I like to help and my area of expertise is in metal and fabrication. THAT is the info I am trying to glean from this thread.

Thanx Buswarrior! That is someplace to start with. If I should do the dam, I would guess some air ducts would be necessary. Doesn't seem like that big of a deal.
  I was also thinking about skirts. (I'm going to make a set for my '51 Chevy sedan that I chopped. OH, what about a '50 Nash ambassador. They were almost skirted completely from the factory! I have one I need to pick up) I REEEEEALLY would have to do ducts then. I may look into NASCAR and see if there is some sort of rule of thumb to go by. Maybe something like a funnel effect to increase the amount of air on the brakes. Skirts might look a bit weird, but........ ? Then again, with a visor and some pinstripping................ Old School Hot Rod!!!!! 
  My biggest concern is the effect on the engine cooling. I wonder if it would hurt or help it?

  Thanx Newbee. Looks like I'm not going to be the first!!  I never am!  But it's good to see someone else thinks it would help. Their claim may be inflated, but ya never know till ya try it. But if it's true, how cool would THAT be to get another MPG!?!?!?!!!! (and a "cool factor" to boot!  )

  That's a thought, Ed. I'm not 100% sure I follow you, but if you could hum me a few bars....  .
  I was kinda thinking 2 piece - metal and rubber belting. But it would have to be a belt hard enough to retain shape going down the road and soft enough to collapse when she settles. I wonder if a 2 piece deal would work where they were slotted and just allowed to slide up past each other. That may be too simple, but I like the K.I.S.S. method. Seems to work best. 
 
   Thanx for the "think tank time" guys. I really do appreciate it!! There may be something to this that we all can do. And if it's possible to pick up an extra MPG from someplace where no one has before............... how cool is that!!! (maybe even a "cool factor" to boot! )  I am getting 6.2 now so that would be big!!! (and yes, I will be trying to get better mileage from the usual and customary places too!)

   Thanx again,
         Chaz

[Don4107]

How about an air actuator triggered by the front air bags.  When the air pressure in the bags goes down the air damn retracts.  Trigger the actuator near max normal air bag pressure.  You would still need a manual override for those humps and bumps. 

Or trigger it by speed.  Retract/extend at 25MPH.  Would not need to remember it for those parking lot approaches.

Or put a switch on shift linkage for those of us with manual trannys so it will only extend in top gear.

Just some rambling thoughts.  You design it, I'll steal your design and take credit for it.

Don 4107

[Chaz]

Man Don, your ramblin thoughts are preeeeeeety damn good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  lol
Those are all good thoughts! The manual trany deal especially! But unfortunately, I have an auto.
  I think the speed thing would probably work best, But I was goung to have rubber belting across the bottom anyway. Hmmmmmmmmm........ good thoughts.....good thoughts.

   thanx,
      Chaz

[kyle4501]

If you block off all air going under the bus, then the vacuum at the rear will increase - let the radiator outlet be to that area & you'll not have over heat issues to deal with.

I like the idea of fender skirts. I saw a bus with skirts on the rear & it really looked good. They had a stylized curve at the bottom & were held on by 1/4 turn fasteners. - Rember that bus NewbeeMC9, we saw it after lunch one day?

Fender skirts on the front will prove difficult to make & allow the bus to turn 

BTW, 40' long ducts will have significant drag in & of themselves, not to mention lost interior space. You'd be better off lowering the roof. - Hey, a chop top buffalo with fender skirts - AWESOME!

[Chaz]

Hey Kyle,
  I dig "hammered lids" on ALLOT of cars (all pre '55) but a Buffalo??!!??!! LOLOL  I'd love to raise it about 8 inches, but I just don't have the time. (typical)
  I was talking to a buddy last night and I really think I'd like a nice smooth curved visor and rear skirts along with the air dam. "Ol skool" look.  (It would make my faded black and brown paint look more at home! LOLOLOL  ) 
                                Maybe even front skirts!
  I know, I know, but if I wouldn't have to bubble them out too far, it would be interesting. I would check the turning dimensions out now, but I am working on the fuel tank and can't start the bus to turn the wheels. That might make it look a little too space age tho. I do like the 'ol skool look that a visor and rear skirts "could" give.  Probably give a small curve on the back skirts to resemble a (my) '56 Chevy.  But it would be interesting to see what effect 4 skirts would have on a bus. And bubbling them out on my English Wheel would not be hard at all.
  As far as 35' ducts............... yeah right!  Front brake ducts would not a problem if they were necessary. I'd probably do them just to be safe anyway. But nothing the length of the bus.
  And more negative pressure under the bus to pull more air thru the radiator would be a great plus!
  Thanx for the thoughts!
       Chaz

   p.s. I wonder if anyone on here knows how to Photoshop? I had a guy photoshop chop my '51 before I put the saw to it. It takes out allot of the guessing on whether or not it would look good or not. 

[maria-n-skip]

Chaz,

    I was thinking (ok it's a tuff sport and I might strain myself) After you have done your mods how about making
me a stylized stainless steel visor for my rig. Both my 48 and 91 Pickups have them. When we were looking to buy a bus
my wife always liked the eagles with the visor.

   Of coarse you would have to come out here to install it and it will take me a year to save up the money.

ps I have all sort of picture editing software but alas I have no artistic ability. I'm a cut and paste kind of guy.

Skip

[Chaz]

Skip,
  I was thinking I may make my visor s.s. also. I love s.s. even if I paint it. Ya just don't have to ever worry about it.
  I wish I knew computers better. I do have Photoshop, but basically computer illiterate. I may have to do it the old fashoned way too.
  If ya ever get out my way, we can talk about that visor!  It would be ALLOT easier here! 

    Keepin the sun outta my eyes,
             Chaz

[kyle4501]

How about full moon wheel covers for the fronts? 
Or, what about huge spinners for the front? That would eliminate the bubble while hiding the wheel 

Pay attention when you're making that visor, cause if you can get the price right, you'll be making lots more.   

[Chaz]

I had thought about Moons all the way around. I think they would be cool!! But I found a full set of s.s. simulators for 50.00 so I couldn't pass that up. 

Spinners........ nah. Never really my thing. Plus the bus would probably want to "take off" !!

I don't think I really want to get back into "production" of an item (visor) but I could probably give out the dimensions for those that would want to do one! 
Songman said he might be able to help with some photoshoping. I think it would look good, but photoshop will tell. I just need to get him some pix.

(by the way, thanx Songman! I'll get some out to ya soon!)

  Cruisin,
        Chaz