Gasoline tank problem

[JohnEd]

  Guys,

You are the smartest bunch I have ever even heard of and you are humble.  Go figure.

My problem is with my old 74 Winniebago fuel tanks.  I made the aux and she totes a full 95 gallons.  Some of the gas in the main tank could be 10 years old.  The aux might have 5 yaer old stuff in it.

I know, I know.....$#!% happens and you forget then you try a "simple fix".  Over the years instead of filling them to the top or draining them I added alchohol/ Marvels/ dry gas fuel sys cleaner and so on and so on.  My objective was to stop rust.  I was not successful in the least.  Additionally, I have created somthing other than gasoline that has large black granuals in it and is also dark, dark brown in color and is not intirely liquid always.  The supernatural may be at play here or even maybe at work.  I rebuilt the trusty Thermo Quad which was jellied full of stuff, got fuel through the lines till it was light brown from the aux, replaced the filter and bought a new battery.  With the prime from the electric fuel pump she fired on the second turnover.  Always a thrill to hear the four forty thunder to life under your feet and note that your auditory sences have shut down.  Well she didn't want to rev and was missing.

I drained a 5 gallon "can" out of the aux and poured it in my 85 Subaru Loyal.  Now there's a car!  The Su had a fit I couldn't have imagined without hind sight or common sense.  She is carburated and with her quater million miles is fully intitled to the legion of quircks she has.   She has never fallen to running on two cylinders POORLY.  I mean bad.  I had visions of having to drain that atnk as well and doing without the car in the process.  I don't do anything with the car because I keep anticipating it's demise in the immediate.  My fix was to add 10 gallons of hightest.  That brought her back to running ok.  Next tank I noticed that all of those quircks were gone and I got three more miles to the gallon.  No $#!%.  It must have all the detergents in the gas that cleaned out the carb.  Firts I shot off all the toes on my right foot then the left, the one in the bucket of poopie, came out smelling like roses.  Go figure. Why is always an adventure, why can't it just be a job?

Now for my question.  How can I clean out my tanks without turning them inside out?  Hello?  Guys?  Is anybody out there?

Thank You

John Ed 

[pvcces]

John Ed, the biggest causes of misfiring with old gas are varnish in passageways and lack of benzene. Benzene is very volatile, maintains a positive pressure in the gas tank and ecapes over a period of time. Benzene is very easily ignited; replacement of the benzene will give the spark something to ignite and it will disolve varnishes. If there is enough present in a full tank, most of the varnish will be gone by the time the tank is used.

I would go at this in either of two ways. Fill the tank with fresh regular gas, carry a spare fuel filter, and try to use the engine without heavy loading. I would avoid hard running because of the possibility of running lean on account of any varnish present.

Another way sould be to put two gallons of white gas in the tank and add at least 10 gallons of high octane fuel. Then take a filter with you and use the engine without running hard until the fuel was used up. I would not use this method if the engine requires high octane fuel.

By the time that you start on the next tank, be sure to change the filter and fill with the recommended fuel. The engine should be running nearly normally on the first all fresh tank. One of the reasons that I would do this is because there is no legal way I know of to dispose of the old gasoline. The other is because I've gotten away with it in all the cases that I've tried it.

For what it's worth.

Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska

[JohnEd]

Tom,

Thank you for the answer.  As always I learn from this BB and the guys that support it with their vast store of experience and training.

The info about benzine was really interesting.  I will follow your advice plus do some things I have thought of.  What I was hoping for was a purely "chemical fix" and you came close.  I will also use a mix of Marvels with the 5 gallons of hightest.  After I run that through and empty the aux I will switch over to the main with the same mix and run that through to empty.  That is a higher concentration than you recommended and I thought that high test 92 oct. would be better, also.  I will do 10 gallons instead of 5 and delete the Marvels if you suggest it and if you see a problem with the Marvels I can wait to use that also.

I have cleaned and rebuilt the carb.  It ran really well after it warmed even on the puke old gas.  She has been a good girl all these years but I haven't used her in ages.  My lines were plugged up pretty solid and the pump ran for 20 minutes before even a drop of gas reached the engine.  The first gas was mostly solid particulate.  She pumps now but there isn't much flow and I hope you are right that ther new gas will disolve the solid stuff.

What is white gas made from?  As a kid we used it to fill colman stoves and lanterns and also to feed two cycle motors.  It was known to be residue or carbon free back then and didn't foul the two stroke plugs.  I haven't seen it in many years that I know of.  What would it do to remove build up?

Thanks again for the answer.  I live in Eugene, Or.  Let me know if I can be of service.  Alaska can be far far away sometimes.

Be well.

John

[belfert]

What is white gas made from?  As a kid we used it to fill colman stoves and lanterns and also to feed two cycle motors.  It was known to be residue or carbon free back then and didn't foul the two stroke plugs.  I haven't seen it in many years that I know of.  What would it do to remove build up?

I believe white gas is purified gasoline, but I'm not sure.  I have run white gas Coleman stoves on unleaded before.  Unleaded tends to plug the generators on Coleman lanterns/stoves, even the dual fuel ones designed for unleaded.  I have found it more economical just to buy white gas.  (This was back when unleaded was $1.25 a gallon.)

White gas is widely available.  Any camping store and many hardware stores carry it for Coleman stoves.  It is sold under the Coleman name and a number of store brands.  White gas is also sold at Walmart and Target.  I think Target sells it under their Greatland brand name.  I don't recall if Walmart sells a generic or just Coleman.

Brian Elfert

[pvcces]

JohnEd, white gas that was available a long time ago was pure naphtha, at least some of it. I wouldn't be surprised if some of it was ordinary gasoline with no lead, considering the stuff that goes on with these oil companies.

The reason that I recommended it was that it's a good solvent and a good fuel at the same time, if not used where very high octane was needed. If you use gasoline, there is a percentage of heavier fuels in it that will only burn properly with adequate amounts of benzene. If the benzene evaporates from the fuel, a spark will not ignite it reliably.

We saw this again and again with outboards, and found that using a tablespoon of fresh gas without removing the old fuel would make them start right up. Usually, after a few starts and the engine warmed up, with at least half of the fuel in the tank being fresh, they would give a minimum of trouble.

This was a case where we deliberately left the fuel tanks low when they were stored, so that we would have room enough for the half tank of fresh.

We get down into Oregon pretty regularly; maybe we can get together and swap some lies. Let me know if that suits you.

Tom Caffrey
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska

[JohnEd]

Tom,

Thank you for your help.  I will follow your advice to the letter and let you know.

I am always up for a good lie, either catching or throwing.  Look forward to seeing you on your next trip.

There is a BusnUSA get together up at RickReal (read Salem) Or. next month.  Are you making that?

jegrabe@efn.org    (541) 915-0832

Tghanks Again

John Ed

[Buffalo SpaceShip]

My County Haz Mat office accepts used gasoline in 5 gallon containers and all of my used oil by the gallon (sometimes 20 at a time). You might check into it. If you have this option, I'd definately drain it into 5 gal. approved containers and take it in. I made the mistake of trying to run 15 year-old gas in an Onan genset and had to rebuild the carb. Then, I drained the tank of the old gas, but didn't steam clean it... and had to rebuild it again, because the new gas made a great solvent for the goo... and put it right back in my carb.

The old varnish just does a number on everything.

OTOH, the 15 year-old diesel fuel in my '06 when I bought it... burned just fine! Just had to change the filters a few times.

My experiences, anyways,
Brian Brown
Longmont, CO
4106-1175
4108-216

[pvcces]

Hi, Brian.

I'm glad there is a way to get rid of the old fuel where you live. We're not quite that developed here, to my knowledge.

Tom Caffrey
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska