Rear main seal leaking bad - Thinking about a change to a 12.7 Series 60 engine

[belfert]

The rear main seal on my 11.1 Series 60 has started to leak really bad.  C&J Bus Repair said the engine might have to come out to fix it.  The 11.1 Series 60 I have is a total dog.  The last time I was at the local Detroit Diesel dealer to look at an issue they said my engine seems to be quite low on power.  The engine was run for some time before I bought it with a bad radiator and a half plugged air intake.  I fixed the air intake and installed a new radiator core, but the damage was likely done.

Is this the right opportunity to put in a pre-EGR 12.7 Series 60 engine instead?  It is going to cost a few thousand dollars to pull the engine and put it back in.  (No engine cradle on a Dina.)  I am somewhat leery of used engines as the pre-EGR engines are around 25 years old now.  By now, the last owner of a 25 year old Series 60 was probably keeping the engine alive with hopes and dreams, and was praying it would pass the next DOT inspection.

BTW, what can I use to remove the heavy coating of oil on the trailer I was towing when it started leaking bad?  I have a nice cold water pressure washer, but I don't believe the chemical injector works.  The tongue, safety chains, and light cable have a lot of oil on them.  (Yes, I checked oil level in bus several times and it was fine.)

[Van]

Finding a low mileage 12.7 would be an option and the first step. Finding a shop to do the retro fit would be the second step and probably the most exspensive of the two shy of rebuilding your current engine. Cheapest way out is to find a low mileage 11 liter for a direct swap out and keep on trucking. IMHO.
BEST OF LUCK!

[luvrbus]

The 11.1 and the 12.7 are the same in size ,the 12.7 weighs about 150 lbs more ,he can probably by a MCI with the series 60 and B500 for 8 to 10 grand ,he has a generation 1 WT B500 it is probably on the last leg .I know nothing about it but BK had a 12.7 for sale

[belfert]

I don't want to buy someone else's problem.  My engine works fine except for the rear main seal leak, and being a dog.  I estimate the bus has about 400,000 miles on it.  I think I have a WTEC II, but not sure.  I've lived with it being a dog for years, but the need to pull the engine regardless has me thinking about just replacing the engine.  I likely would not replace the engine if it didn't need to come out anyhow.

It doesn't make sense to go back with another 11.1, unless another 11.1 performs better than mine.  As Clifford stated the 11.1 and 12.7 are physically the same size externally.  A 12.7 will bolt right in with no changes.  Dina switched to the 12.7 in 1996 or 1997.  I think the switch was because the 11.1 was discontinued.  Like I said, my main concern is getting someone else's problem.  A truck 12.7 could be converted to a bus engine by switching the oil pan, and maybe the oil pickup.

At this point, there is probably a 75% chance I will just go with getting the rear main seal replaced due to cost.  I could be $10,000 in on an engine swap easily versus $2,000 to $3,000 on a fix for my engine.

[belfert]

One thing that made me unhappy is JD Dickinson told me he scrapped a pretty nice Dina recently.  He forgot I have a Dina.  I don't know about the drivetrain, but I just wanted all of the unique hard to find parts on a Dina.

[belfert]

I talked to JD Dickinson about some Series 60 engines from buses that he has for sale.  A number of them on his website are sold, but he has some not listed.  He has a 1996 Prevost with a Series 60 engine that is an American Fleet rebuild with 20k on it.  $7,500 for the engine, but he said if C&J Bus Repair did the install to plan on $20,000 to be safe (Total with engine, labor, and taxes), and it could be less.  He would replace all rubber parts, fuel lines, and such while the engine is out.  That is why the cost goes from $3,000 to R&R my engine to replace the seal to $12,500 in labor and parts to put in a different engine.  If C&J Bus Repair does the work they have to give some sort of warranty which is why they replace everything that could fail.

I talked to Van about doing such a project myself and he said plan on year if you have a job.  He highly recommended paying the $20k if I decided to buy that engine.  I'm still going to be over $10,000 because I will want to replace at least some of the hoses and other parts too.

I need to verify it is the rear main seal yet.  I remembered there are oil pressure senders and other things directly above the bell housing.  Maybe one of those sprung a leak.  That would be an easy fix.  I am going to pull the inside engine cover this evening to look at that.

[Van]

Can you get some of your fellow "Rocketeers" to kick in some $$ to help offset the exspenses? Just a thought.

Good talking to ya!

[thomasinnv]

When I did the rear main on my 11.1 (a few years before I did the 12.7 swap) 2 guys just dropped the trans out, r&r'd the rear main seal, and had it all back together and done in about 4 hours time. Of course I don't know how different your Dina is compared to a DL3.

[luvrbus]

I don't know anything about a Dina but it is hard to believe on a newer bus you cannot pull the transmission without pulling the engine  to replace a seal that would suck it did on the MCI 5, JD would know though he is not one to jerk you around for a few extra dollars. I would not be afraid of buying the series 60 (P) premium used engine with 5 to 600,000 miles on it they have a lot of life left, the Std model series 60 would be a little iffy for me

[belfert]

JD wasn't sure if the engine has to come out because my Dina is one of the only ones he was has worked on.  He gave a price to pull the engine and it could be less.

[belfert]

I would not be afraid of buying the series 60 (P) premium used engine with 5 to 600,000 miles on it they have a lot of life left, the Std model series 60 would be a little iffy for me

What is a premium versus std Series 60 engine?  I have never heard of that.  My bus showed around 300,000 miles when I bought it although the speedometer was not working right.  The wear on the chassis seemed consistent with 300,000 miles.  The ECM only showed like 1,000 miles when I bought the bus.  I believe I have somewhere in the 400,000 mile range on the engine.  I sort of hate to put in an engine with 500,000 to 600,000 miles although I probably won't put more than another 100,000 miles on my bus in my lifetime.

[luvrbus]

Series 60 12.7  has had 3 grades of engines since they were inducted the premium has better and longer lasting components ,I have saw the series 60 (P) with a million 800 thousand miles on it with very few repairs the (Std) last around 800 to a million miles,the high hp marine series 60 is a upgrade from the (P) ,the engine will have a P or a S in the serial number .Kubota does also with their engines too, they stopped it a few years on the generator engines

[belfert]

I've looked at the model numbers of 20 to 30 Series 60 12.7 engines and they are all standard.  I think it would be hard to find a premium engine.

[luvrbus]

I've looked at the model numbers of 20 to 30 Series 60 12.7 engines and they are all standard.  I think it would be hard to find a premium engine.

There  is a lot of the (P) around all the Peter Pan MCI buses had the (P) series 60 ,the Std was found a lot in fleet trucks like Swift,so there are probably more around

[belfert]

Peter Pan's fleet is tiny when compared to all of the truck Series 60 engines that were sold.  I suspect I would be searching for months to find a premium engine out of a bus.  I am certain a premium engine would better, but at what cost if I can't use my bus for 18 months while trying to source and install one?