Working on the battery bay

Satelliteguy · February 24, 2024, 07:56:58 AM

I am sure this is not knew on this forum but not knowing for sure what I have should help the member's help me. I have a four ( house ) battery bank, a single generator start battery in one of my bays. I have a Xantrex Freedom Combi inverter/charger model is A10006728 from 2002. The batteries are newer 2019 is the oldest, they bare 100 Amp hour units. I am adding a WonVon model KG-F series coulometer with 600 AMP shunt and a battery disconnect.
The questions I have are:
The shunt I have has two lugs on the input side and two lugs on the output side, can I wire two batteries together and attach to one lug of the shunt input lug and wire the other two batteries together and attach to the other shunt input lug? Can I then attach one shunt output to the inverter ( load ) input?
I can not find any information on the model I have listed so I do not know how many amps/watts it is capable of providing.

The bus is all electric, residential frig, OnDemand water heater, two rooftop ac/heater, microwave, washer/dryer combo, electric cock top, plus a couple of TV's and several lights. I have replaced the puck light bulbs with (120VAC) LED bulbs.

The inverter at this time with no shore or generator power will power the frig and a TV off on one plug on the right side of the bus. The inverter also will light up a few puck lights but the switches for them do not control them.

I am looking for advise on how to make this a more efficient with the best use of the batteries for dry camping. Solar would not be a option I at this time but will be in the future.

Thanks everyone for reading this and if you have any ideas please let me know

epretot · February 24, 2024, 04:47:38 PM

The batteries coulbe be wired in paralell 12v or in series paralell 24v. Perhaps I don't understand the question. But I don't see the benefit of wiring two and two and wiring them to separate lugs.

With regards to efficiency and all of your loads. 1st you have to determine how many amp hours you're using and work backwards.
For dry camping/boondocking you want to have priorities. Refrigerator and water heater and a few lights. AC and heat are a no-go. So the best use of what you have is to isolate. But I'm pretty sure the on demand water heater is not helping matters. Is it 120v or 240v?

Next find the specs of the inverter. That will tell you you're limitations. Perhaps there is a sticker or placard somewhere on the inverter?

freds · February 25, 2024, 10:05:44 AM

Looking at the picture it appears that your batteries are wired in Parallel so with with four 100AH lead acid batteries you have 150ah of available battery juice. (You do not discharge lead acid batteries below 50%). So you have about 2KW of storage.

Since you have an older inverter I would assume 80% efficiency so roughly 1.6KW of AC power that can be consumed. Which is not a lot. It could either be a 1.5KW or 2KW modified sine wave inverter.

So plan on using your generator a lot and having the inverter carry the fridge over night at best.

Take pictures of all the writing and data tags on the unit.

Your very first investment should be a battery monitor and you can't go wrong with Victron which is blue tooth and has a nice phone app.

Without that you are just guessing and could wind up murdering the batteries fairly easy.

Iceni John · February 25, 2024, 08:09:01 PM

Use only 12VDC LED lights: it makes no sense to run an energy-sucking inverter to power lights.

To power a fridge you should look at the Victron Phoenix or Compact Phoenix ranges of inverters. I recently bought a Phoenix 12/1200VA that will always remain on 24/7 to power the fridger and/or chest freezer, and it draws only about 1W when on standby in its Eco mode! I haven't found any other inverter with such a low current draw when it's not actually producing power. This way I can run my Magnum MS2000 inverter only when needed for other occasional loads, saving a lot of power that would be needed to keep the Magnum on standby. The Victron is a low frequency design, using a big toroidal transformer to help it start and power difficult reactive loads, something that HF inverters cannot do as well.

Why wait for the solar panels? Put them on ASAP, then you'll start reaping their benefits sooner rather than later. Panels are cheap, well under a dollar a watt. Imagine not needing to run the generator so much (if at all...).

John

Satelliteguy · February 28, 2024, 10:51:20 AM

Thank you all for your input here, ITs allot to take in. The bus is at the shop for a few more days and when it gets back I will take more pics and add arrows and pointer as directed. I wish I could find out more about the inverter/charger that is in the bus now, the model number is not telling me much. From what I have now to what is being suggested is a pile of green backs and I am doing this upgrade as I can while living in it.
I did speak with a gentleman at a battery shop that has the deep cycle gulf cart batteries at 250 Amp, for $200.00 a piece and I do have the room to install them. It requires I turn in my currant batteries for the core charge, it seems a shame to turn them in as they only a couple of years old.

Anyway thanks

Bob

freds · February 29, 2024, 08:05:57 PM

Ok I am going to throw a few things against the wall to see if they stick.

First off any modern solar system should have a 48V battery bank (which you could start with your current four led acid batteries).

Sell off your current inverter for whatever you can get without paying them to take it away!!!

I suggest the following Victron inverter: https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energy-MultiPlus-II-3000-35-50/dp/B0945S183W/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1DN4XN4SC1YPU&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.vUOIHa8eZg5YPGCZZzgeR5GHMIYYAWUsfMIRlm9v7Kjp7PIjywNdlOhr9gW3erVu6hlEY6N90Shv3b5_hnkqewYCE7ot0z7C8zmbYL1Gid2L6YJekcHm-hQlqpGi_W4d2murc9pwZ8ly1n0u5yIcbFD6iLkDzcNDnWQ4BAlyhyE_rkMj3zyUvvXICb9gme_Wd8B7T9d24HTecXVxXOVnwNZpAWh-rGcEysZ3mybB5IZG_FRnhKosZd4NF9biFZmbBLHH3LQ6--J7QWZ6vpNY7p1tGNhvpuzlo2g79zeKtJU.g5KgHA_9HAotY4y3R7_aKS6bw1pZbaflAYNHYENT4Zk&dib_tag=se&keywords=victron%2Bcharger%2Binverter%2B48v%2B220%2Bsplit%2Bphase&qid=1709265205&sprefix=victron%2Bcharger%2Binverter%2B48v%2B220%2Bsplit%2Bphase%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-2&th=1

It has a low standby draw current and can be fed from an extension cord and make up surge demand from the batteries and feed the refrigerator. So run a single air-conditioner and be able to use the microwave without kicking the feed circuit breaker.

Then you have a couple of choices:

1. Solar panels and a charge controller (best to stick to Victron). (Read through my build thread on solar panels.)
2. Buy a 48V rack mount 5KW rack mount battery pack (lots of vendors out there). About $1,5000.00 to replace the led acid batteries. You can also buy more later...

Satelliteguy · March 08, 2024, 05:31:58 AM

The suggestions and input is appreciated very much. This bus is new to me and I am trying to find out what I can do with the system that was installed. Most would just replace and add solar, which I may do yet. After the purchase, service checks, repairs, DMV fees and title/taxes, insurance, re-repairs of items not completed correctly the first time, the piggy bank seem's to be unhappy and now very slim. Jumping into replacing working batteries and inverter/converters adding solar and chargers is allot to take in. If there was an icon of pockets turned inside out I would place it here.

Thanks all for the information.

Bob

freds · March 08, 2024, 02:13:27 PM

Quote from: Satelliteguy on March 08, 2024, 05:31:58 AM
The suggestions and input is appreciated very much. This bus is new to me and I am trying to find out what I can do with the system that was installed. Most would just replace and add solar, which I may do yet. After the purchase, service checks, repairs, DMV fees and title/taxes, insurance, re-repairs of items not completed correctly the first time, the piggy bank seem's to be unhappy and now very slim. Jumping into replacing working batteries and inverter/converters adding solar and chargers is allot to take in. If there was an icon of pockets turned inside out I would place it here.

Thanks all for the information.

Bob

Your welcome Bob and I agree getting started with a bus is sort of big hit to the pocket book...

windtrader · March 08, 2024, 04:53:08 PM

Jumping a bit late but my recommendation is to take the time to research and understand all the options, varying designs and configurations, and current best offerings from vendors. The market is changing dramatically in favor of buyers so time is on your side as well as being an informed buyer. There are so many ways to go, yours may be fine for now.
DIY for sure if you have time to learn and patience to execute.

Here's an example of LiFePO4 running at 100 a kilo, that's dropped 25% recently. I was paying that for LiPohttps://batteryhookup.com/products/calb-3-2v-72ah-230-4wh-lifepo4-prismatic-cellThis means a 6kW lithium battery pack for 600 bucks, really! yes, indeed.
I picked up 10 320 panels for 600 bucks. So that's over 3Kw solar power.

Of course you need bits and pieces as well as solar controller and inverter but this is the new paradigm.

The one cornerstone that has not budged much is Victron equipment pricing but it is very solid stuff. Not that you need to start there. For BMS and solar controller I used a SBMS0 which worked fine but without much bells and whistles. I upgraded to Victron after a couple years.