Advice needed for a newbie on owning a bus

[ChuckMC9]

And buses are a lifestyle. If you really don't love buses... and talking about oil and brakes and tires and injectors and "that 2-stroke music", take a long, hard look at some other kind of Motorhome. Preferably, a Newell or a Bluebird, unless you want it to be in the shop more than on the road.

That's the crux of the decision, right there. And even if you don't do the mechanical work, you gotta somewhat enjoy, or at least be comfortable with those who specialize in busses. They don't talk the same language as the drones at the RV dealership when dealing with service work.

If I didn't have a bus, I'd strongly consider a Wanderlodge. My other choice would be a class B+, believe it or not, for the opposite extreme of 'scootability'.

BTW, the best mental position, IMHO, is just to forget about resale. For something like you're describing, it really shouldn't enter the financial calculations. The entire world can (and will) change in 10 years. (ooops, flame-bait )

[Runcutter]

Dave, if you let us know what part of the country you're in, we may be able to steer you (sorry, couldn't help it) - to places where you can look at some conversions.  There may be a rally in your area.  

We bought a coach that had been converted, but we're updating the conversion.  Even though there's some mechanical work that I could do, I don't have a pit or lifts available, so we contract it out.  (Q - How do you pull stud-piloted rear duals?  A. - Find out if they take Visa or Mastercard).  So, I can do the stuff I enjoy, rebuilding the interior, and have someone else - who knows the tricks - reroute the exhaust from the auxiliary generator.

Why did I go into that detail?  -  Even with all that, we'll have a coach that we like, that we can be confident with - for less in total than the dollars you're talking about.  

Now, in the interests of fair disclosure, I'm a bus guy, (particluarly, a GM bus guy) over 37 years in the business.  Our coach has been in the bus business one year longer than I have - so I'm prejudiced.  If it was just the travel, my Lincoln gives a good ride, is easier to maneuver and park, and there are some darned good hotel chains - and the total cost of travel would probably be lower.  If it was just the destination - I travel extensively on business, so it'd be a good use of my frequent flyer miles - and frequent hotel points, again a lower cost.  However, with the coach, we're preserving some history, and I can return to those thrilling days of yesteryear when I was a bus driver - but on my terms.    

Good luck with your search and decisions.

Arthur    

[H3Jim]

One of the major reasons RV's sell so much better than bus conversions is that financing is readily available on most RV's, while it is not available for most bus conversions.  Few people have the cash or equity to plunk down on it.  That has a dramatic affect on demand. It took me about 9 months to come up with the $ to buy mine, but I was ready to buy much earlier and just could not find the $.  A home equity line of credit is the best way.

All the things previously said in this post are correct about buses being better built, much safer etc.  So if you can get one, they sure are great with a lot of vey nice people in the group.

[NJT5047]

Be careful with used Bluebirds (Wanderlodge) and Newells.   Both are super nice items, but they are both buses.  They both generally bring super high resale prices. 
IMHO, they have all the shortcomings of manufactured RVs and buses.  Bluebirds and Newells are extroadinarily difficult to repair.  Bluebird has this thing about installing accessories and wiring (hot water heaters in bedroom closets, behind a mirrored wall..behind the bed) in totally unaccessable areas.  Manuals for the RV components are not accurate.    The RV parts are installed before the interior is built...so to replace these components, major disassembly is in order..
Newell crams their huge engines into an engine room more suited for a motocycle engine (I know...harsh, but check out an S60 in a Newell).  One could take a cooler, snacks and whatever you need into the engine room of most MCIs and relax while working on the engine.  Loads of room to work.  Comparatively...same for a GM if you are woring on the LH side of the engine.  The "dark side" of a DD mounted in a GM coach is a little more problematic.
While both Bluebird and Newell are beautiful rigs....they may cost more to maintain than either a real bus or a common, mass produced  class A motorhome...such as an Itasca.   Same for most class Cs and the cute little class "B" (think Sportsmobile).   
The ease of repair, and knowing where to find that which needs repairing (because you put it there) is a big incentive to building your own.   The "local knowledge" about how your self-converted bus works, is a big plus in owning a self conversion....as long as you can do the work. 
However, there have been drop dead nice factory converted '88 to '92 Prevosts XLs on the market for for fire sale prices...I'd like to have one..but when I look, they are soo complicated.  I've not made the jump...yet.  My el-cheapo MC9 is working just fine. 
Some of the factory Prevosts that I've looked at have  switches all over the place...behind dinettes...above the sofa..  It would take a year to figure what works what.  Still...they are tempting.  Selling for 20% of original...and most have under 200K miles.   Problem is no slides...and 2 stroke DD power.  They are 102" coaches.   
I'd prefer a late 102C3.  I like MCIs...but a nice late C3 shell will bring as much as those Prevosts referenced above.   
If you want a bus conversion on a budget, buy may I recommend buying the latest (year model) home converted bus that meets a quality assurance survey.  There will be shortcomings, but resolving the shortcomings should be offset by the low market on home-grown conversions.   Buy a bus that's built using  the "KISS" method.
Before you spend time looking, think about what sort of camping you plan to  do....boonying will require a genset, and LP appliances...always on a pole and all electric is OK.  You'll likely be somewhere between..but keep in mind that running a large genset for 24 hours may cost big $$$$.  Figure close to a gallon an hour of diesel to run two ACs.   UMMMmmmm  about $75 bucks a day??   For dry camping..big windows, roof vents, solar, big battery bank, LP fridge-hot water-stove...these are some things to consider.   
Well, I prattle!  Here's a little more information to think about! 
Best, JR
BTW, let us know what you decide.  Post a pic of your new ride! 

[Dave C]

Thanks to all for the many thoughtful detailed replys.  You guys are the best.  Now I really want to get a bus just to join the club!  Especially for the safety factor.

Funny thing regarding a buyers market.  Not everyone bites at a low offer.  I'm getting the feeling some of the guys that have $50k+ buses aren't interested in selling if they don't get their price.  (Maybe I look like daddy warbucks  damn) ha  But I also don't blame them I would too!

I live near Sacramento.  Any upcoming westcoast rallies?   

[RJ]

I live near Sacramento.  Any upcoming west coast rallies?   

Roseville?  Davis?  Woodland?  Yuba City/Marysville?  Elk Grove?  Rio Linda (for you Rush fans. . .    )  Suggest you edit your profile to add city/state to either post signatures or profile itself - can be VERY helpful to others trying to help you when a situation arises - like suggesting local facilities for parts, repairs, etc.

Biggest on the west coast is coming up in a couple of weeks in OR.  Here's the info link:

http://www.busnusa.com/

Should be over 150 coaches there - well worth the trip if you can make it.  Non-owners are welcomed and encouraged to attend!!

Would be going myself, but that's the weekend all the grandkids are coming to visit from Canada. . .  haven't seen them in over a year, so family takes priority.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[Ed Hackenbruch]

We will be there for the 4th year. If you come up stop by and say hi and we will show you our bus.

[grantgoold]

Dave C, I live in Citrus Heights (six miles from Rio Linda! ) and I can show you my bus and you can get an idea of what roughly 25K+ has gotten me! I got an MCI 9 shell and have been working on my conversion for almost 2 years.

Of course, the upcoming rally in Oregon will be the largest on the right coast and a great opportunity to check out hundreds of buses.

Let me know.

Grant
Citrus Heights

[NJT 5573]

Buy a decent bus. Mike has/had a Series 50 set up that should be very reasonable to keep on the road. Fuel is getting to be a major issue in RV travel and that 50 could literally free up thousands of dollars for other uses as well as be one of the strongest resale factors 10 years down the road that I can think of. Buy for mileage, my 1989 Model 20 only had 400,000 miles and its almost like a new bus underneath.

[Gary '79 5C]

All great comments from those know, However the only addition I may add is what length bus do you need, With a 40' or 45' you may limit yourself from National Parks etc,
This may not be a problem for you, however my storage building could only take a 35' at this time. I purchased the newest 35' MCI made a '79. I guess there were a few '80's. Luke talked me out of the 3500 series made in Mexico. Not sure that was wise, but I am wonderfully happy with the '79 Saudi conversion, but still look at the 3500's. Much easier around town and without the tags I am much lighter.
With your gang the 40' might be required. I just have Me & Mrs.

Good Luck some thing to ponder.

Gary P

[Ncbob]

Someone much wiser than me stated that it would be better to keep your trap shut and let the world think you're a darned fool as against opening it and convincing them....but I'll let you decide......

Like Ed H we first decided what size (length) bus we wanted and started reading this and the other Bus board. I'd decided that 35' would be just big enough for us and too small for grandchildren. Too, by buying an older bus all the depreciation would be gone and it would be neat if the conversion were at least started and the layout made sense.

Being basically 'handy' seemed an asset but somehow age didn't get into the equation. It wasn't long before we decided that the P/O (precious owner) must have wanted a 'bus camper' as against a Motor Home since everything seemed to have been built by itinerant gypsies or out of work handy men without much thought to Codes or anything like that.

Since the clutch slipped like a Rottweiler on an ice rink (and we live in the mountains) my first investment was in a new clutch and Jake Brakes for the DD 8-71. Scratch $5K. Still we felt the old girl ('68 MC5A) held promise.  Since the bus had set up for a number of years we had to clean up the waste of some non-rent paying occupants (mice) which entailed tearing out everything near and dear to their little hearts.  At this point I would offer some advice.  Even though you don't know how to build a dog house...learn woodworking!  It's cheaper than hiring it done and a lot more rewarding!

Over a year and many bucks later we're full timing in our treasure and quite happy.  If I can just get that last cabinet I built to fit right.......

If you need a list of things to do right..I'm not your guy.  But I sure can recommend getting in and finding out what a joy it is to tool down the highway in the finest and safest machine ever built and rub elbows with the best darned folks you'd ever wish to meet.

BusNuts are in a special category for sure!

Bob

[NJT5047]

All great comments from those know, However the only addition I may add is what length bus do you need, With a 40' or 45' you may limit yourself from National Parks etc,
This may not be a problem for you, however my storage building could only take a 35' at this time. I purchased the newest 35' MCI made a '79. I guess there were a few '80's. Luke talked me out of the 3500 series made in Mexico. Not sure that was wise, but I am wonderfully happy with the '79 Saudi conversion, but still look at the 3500's. Much easier around town and without the tags I am much lighter.
With your gang the 40' might be required. I just have Me & Mrs.

Good Luck some thing to ponder.

Gary P

Be careful with a 45' coach...get into issues in some states with CDL requirement.  Lots of parks won't allow a 45' coach. 
35 or 40 is the ticket. 
45s have  ton of room, and they'll be expensive. 
Your call!
Best, JR

[Busted Knuckle]

Of course, the upcoming rally in Oregon will be the largest on the right coast and a great opportunity to check out hundreds of buses.
Grant
Citrus Heights

Doesn't he mean wrong coast ? ? Let me know.  LOL! BK 

[belfert]

Be careful with a 45' coach...get into issues in some states with CDL requirement.  Lots of parks won't allow a 45' coach. 
35 or 40 is the ticket. 
45s have  ton of room, and they'll be expensive. 

Dinas are 43 feet long.  They are also a lot less expensive than other 40 or 45 footers with Series 60 engines.  That being said, they are still a lot more expensive than an MCI MC9 or 102A3.  Amazingly enough, the price I paid for my Dina was only about $5,000 more than 102C3s with two strokes I could find 15 months ago.

The Dina is Mexican made and some of the parts are hard to find or expensive.  MCI is the parts source for Dina as they sold the Dina in the USA.  A three axle brake job (pads and drums) and wheel bearings with labor was just over $8,000 with parts over half the cost.

I would be torn about doing another Dina.  I like the torsion suspension, but an MCI or Prevost would be easier to get serviced and find parts for.  I still paid way less for my shell even after repairs than a comporable Prevost or MCI with the same drivetrain.

I pretty much always boondock so length doesn't bother me.  It is unclear if out of state buses/RVs over 40' in California require a special license or not.  I do know there are designated roads/routes for over 40' buses/RVs.  I don't plan on going to California any time soon personally.  

[Cary and Don]

Hi,

You are real close to us.  We live in Foresthill, just outside Auburn.  We have a GMC 4107 that we bought started and we finished from the walls out.  We have just started converting a Neoplan from a coach. If you would like to see some pictures or actually see inside an engine compartment, we would love to show you ours.  We looked at rvs first and decided on the bus for all the reasons mentioned.  And then there is the cool factor.  Our 4107 turns heads everywhere we go. Send us an email, paper1@hughes.net if you would like any information or pictures.

Don and Cary
GMC4107