BEV bus problems

[CrabbyMilton]

You can call me a skeptical curmudgeon all you want. However, there may be good reason. These are designed for use around an urban center and they are having all kinds of problems.

https://www.nationandstate.com/2021/07/15/report-philadelphias-proterra-fleet-in-complete-shambles/

[bronson]

Good read. Definitely proves the fallacy of an all electric zero emission future.

[luvrbus]

It won't be long before a charge on EV's will cost as much as gasoline if it's not happening now

[richard5933]

Not questioning the problems the article describes, but apparently there are other cities who are managing much better.

Certainly there's going to be a learning curve for any system switching to electric.

As much as I also enjoy being a curmudgeon from time to time, I'm afraid diesel buses are going the way of the dodo bird in the not-too-distant future. Hopefully they get the bugs worked out before that happens.

[CrabbyMilton]

I think you are correct for the most part Richard. It may not be overnight that diesel powered buses go the way of the square wheel and 8 track but it will happen albeit longer term. Sure we look at it as traditional bus fans but the people who operate and above all who will be passengers just want them to work as prescribed. All it would take is one or two times of a broken down bus to turn people off to these. Until all BEV's can get these bugs worked out, they have a long way to go before they can earn people's confidence but again it will take some time first.

[luvrbus]

Diesel power is going to be around for many more years

[Jim Blackwood]

A city BEV that goes 50-100 miles max is going to totally replace diesel? Not in this lifetime. OK I grant you that they have proven it is POSSIBLE. Not better in any way, just possible. Honestly electric trolleys had a better chance. The energy density just isn't there, and it may never be. Despite the advances in modern battery technology, the advance that is needed to make that happen is one complete order of magnitude greater than what is now available. That's a factor of 10. Ten times better is what it will take. That gives you a 500 mile range with the same bulk and weight or a 250 mile range with half the bulk and weight which would be what is needed for general acceptance. Battery technology has not advanced by a factor of 10 over the entire history of batteries so going from here to there would take a technological breakthrough the likes of which the human race has probably never achieved in the entirety of human history.

Yeah it'd be nice but it's wishful thinking and any chemical engineer will tell you so. How long did it take 4 stroke diesels to push all 2 stroke diesels completely off the roads? Oh wait, hasn't happened yet. To say nothing of marine and stationary.

Jim

[luvrbus]

Valley Metro in Phoenix has never taken the bait yet on electric buses because of heat and the long routes lol hell they cannot keep the electric rail system up and running

[Lee Bradley]

Wishful hoping never wins against thinking.

[dtcerrato]

Wishful hoping never wins against thinking.

Unless luck is in the equation!

[Van]

Looks safe to me lol! No diesel bus' were harmed in this inccident
https://youtu.be/T71cVhxG_v4

[richard5933]

Looks safe to me lol! No diesel bus' were harmed in this inccident
https://youtu.be/T71cVhxG_v4

Not all of these video are factual. Apparently some recent videos claiming to show an electric bus on fire were actually videos of propane/diesel buses.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-bus-fire/fact-check-clip-does-not-show-a-battery-electric-bus-on-fire-idUSL2N2WN1L4

There are over 500 bus fires a year, nearly all of them diesel or propane.

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2019/06/09/more-than-500-bus-fires-a-year-reported-in-us-roadshow/?preview_id=6191909

[richard5933]

A city BEV that goes 50-100 miles max is going to totally replace diesel? Not in this lifetime. OK I grant you that they have proven it is POSSIBLE. Not better in any way, just possible. Honestly electric trolleys had a better chance...
Jim

There are more than a few projects working to extend the range by utilizing overhead charging. One I read about can charge enough in the time it takes to drop off/pick up passengers at a bus stop to get to the next stop and beyond. The batteries would be used for times when the stations are further apart.

Obviously this is a better solution for cities and urban areas than for rural routes, but with the number of these type of experiments in place I foresee more and more of these systems going online in the coming years.

Would be interesting to see them combine the old trackless trolley overhead lines with a BEV bus, allowing it to charge while on the portion of the route with the overhead power lines, and the run on batteries were there aren't.

[luvrbus]

Very few transit buses run on propane if any they are mostly CNG engines made by Cummins ,CNG is 1/2 the cost of propane is why it is so popular for Transit buses fleets,the school here has some LNG (liquid natural gas) they can run on propane because propane is a liquid 

[richard5933]

Very few transit buses run on propane if any they are mostly CNG engines made by Cummins ,CNG is 1/2 the cost of propane is why it is so popular for Transit buses fleets,the school here has some LNG (liquid natural gas) they can run on propane because propane is a liquid

It might have been CNG or some other similar thing. I was using 'propane' generically (as opposed to gasoline or diesel) which was not very accurate.