EVs

[luvrbus]

The big money people in Scottsdale are buying the Lucid EV made in Tuscon Az  supposed to be a better car than a Telsa with over a 500 mile range between charges lol for a $170,000.00 + each they should go across the US and back without charge,I am ok with gas or diesel if I run out of fuel, I can carry a couple of gals of fuel   

[chessie4905]

just take a cell phone power pack along and plug into cigarette lighter. youll be good to go.

[chessie4905]

https://www.quora.com/Do-businesses-with-a-Tesla-Charging-station-get-paid-by-Tesla-Why-would-they-pay-to-have-one-installed-if-many-drivers-have-free-miles-from-Tesla

smart move by tesla. remember when apple gave computers to schools early on? paid off in the long run.

[lvmci]

MCI: Amazing news! Our sister company, New Flyer, today unveiled North America's most advanced #zeroemission hydrogen fuel cell-electric bus - the Xcelsior CHARGE FC™.

The #XcelsiorCHARGEFC harnesses the latest technology #innovations to deliver the most advanced #hydrogen fuel cell-electric bus available on the market. It offers a more streamlined, #sustainable, and robust design that delivers increased operational efficiency, improved serviceability, and a longer range of 370+ miles for highway driving.

Read more at https://bit.ly/3BmaFht

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[windtrader]

Not sure why i'm posting buty Fred is an EV convert. I am too but still waiting for the glut of new WEV models due in the next year or two. China is ramping up big time. USA is still the laggard but will catch up.

Geely plans to produce the Polestar 3 at the Volvo plant in South Carolina in the USNIO
Citing LMC Automotive data, the Times said China will make more than eight million EVs by 2028, while Europe is on track to make five million by then. But North America will produce just 1.4 million EVs by 2028.

My solution for short trips where possible is my upgraded ebile. The new battery pack is at 1700 watts. I don't  cruise more than 35 mph, falling would hurt too much at my advanced age.
The dash image shows 815 watts to go 30 miles, about 27 watts per mile. 

At 13 cents/kWh  (off peak):   37 miles for 13 cents or
  100 miles for about 35 cents.
I have a 3/4 wheel version on the drawing board that will have plenty of storage ot hold a few bags of groceries. Enclosed for all weather use, AC optional LOL

[luvrbus]

I read today Hydrogen is the future for all car manufactures  interesting read Toyota is passing on the EV"s along with others, Hydrogen is big in the UK ,Shell oil is involved with building the cell stations.Musk may change directions before long   

[dtcerrato]

No different than going to another form of horse less  carriage.. lol

[Jim Blackwood]

Assuming they get any sort of efficiency out of this catalytic hydrolysis, and fuel cells can be manufactured economically, and the usable service life is acceptable, hydrogen may have a chance, particularly if they come up with a storage method something like is used with acetylene so that tank pressures can be low. (The acetylene molecules attach to acetone molecules in the tank and greatly reduce the vapor pressure)

But, the catalytic electrolysis does sound an awful lot like a perpetual motion machine at this point. You don't get something for nothing so where does the energy come from to break the hydrogen oxygen bond? Until that question is clearly answered and understood what we are talking about here is snake oil. The entire process depends on catalysts and until we have inexpensive and environmentally friendly catalysts for both ends of the process (hydrolysis and fuel cell) it's still vaporware. Just the fact that these three issues are not being openly discussed tells me that we are still a decade or two away from a real world solution.

Jim

[lvmci]

Interstate trucking, boats, trains, already to go, but the real money will be middle America...

[Nova Eona]

Hydrogen seems to be a lot like nuclear fusion - it could be an incredible technology, but there remain significant hurdles to widespread use.  Not to say it can't or won't happen, but it would be fundamentally foolish to ignore EVs - which work today and are getting better all the time - in favor of waiting for hydrogen.

Also worth noting that the two technologies are not fundamentally opposed - wouldn't a hybrid hydrogen-EV vehicle be the best of both worlds?  High-efficiency-high-torque electric motors driven by battery (or supercapacitor while we're talking future tech), hydrogen power generation to keep the batteries topped up on longer trips.

[luvrbus]

With Shell in the mix now in the UK for the infrastructure it won't be long in Europe here our politics will slow it down ,their power bills are expensive in the UK     

[windtrader]

Hydrogen vehicles are not vaporware. CA has been promoting hydrogen fleet vehicles for years. Yoiu seem plenty of govt. cars running on hydrogen. Naturally, it is far easier to refuel back in the central motor pool but there is constant increase. The article below reports increase in hydrogen buses running around.

That said, there is no arguing that EV is going to be the next standard, not hydrogen.

https://www.energy.ca.gov/programs-and-topics/programs/clean-transportation-program/clean-transportation-funding-areas-1https://driveclean.ca.gov/search-vehicleshttps://www.hydrogenfwd.org/california-plans-to-double-hydrogen-fuel-cell-bus-fleet-with-current-purchase-pipeline/

[Jim Blackwood]

Yeah, page not found. I'm not saying there aren't a few hydrogen vehicles out there, any more than I'd say there aren't some cars running on Brown's gas and just because Cali has promoted a small fleet doesn't really mean all that much when you consider that they have virtually unlimited funds at their disposal.

No, what I am saying is that for this to hit prime time those three things I mentioned have to be not just solved but widely understood, so that not only does the average service guy have a snowball's chance of fixing it when it breaks, but so that just as importantly the cost to put it on the street and operate it is competitive with or better than existing technologies. The fact that we are not seeing widespread discussion of those three issues means that they are still trade secrets to whatever extent they have been worked out, and the owners of those secrets are trying to profit by their knowledge, meaning extra cost for anyone wanting to use those secrets. Once it becomes common knowledge the cost comes down, often dramatically. So I'll stand by my 10-20 year estimate particularly since that's about how long a US patent runs.

This doesn't even begin to address the environmental impact or the scarcity of rare earth materials for the manufacture of catalysts, or even the possibility that a low pressure hydrogen storage method may not be a nut we can crack during that time period. So in a practical sense for the average consumer it remains just that, Vaporware. Notwithstanding government incentives.

Jim

[Dave5Cs]

Here's one that works. When Arnold was Gov he drove a Hummer that was Hydrogen also.

https://www.energy.ca.gov/programs-and-topics/programs/clean-transportation-program/clean-transportation-funding-areas-1

[chessie4905]

one thing, getting away from catalitic converters, will stop use of a lot of rare earth minerals in their production, although there will probably be other demands for them.