Yet another battery thread

belfert · September 08, 2021, 06:50:01 AM

There are alternator regulators designed for lithium batteries like the Wakespeed WS500.

I don't know what I will do once my batteries need to be replaced. I am almost at the point where it might make sense to just run the generator 24x7 for power. The fuel costs would likely be less than batteries every six years or so.

luvrbus · September 08, 2021, 07:24:00 AM

Quote from: belfert on September 08, 2021, 06:50:01 AM
There are alternator regulators designed for lithium batteries like the Wakespeed WS500.

I don't know what I will do once my batteries need to be replaced. I am almost at the point where it might make sense to just run the generator 24x7 for power. The fuel costs would likely be less than batteries every six years or so.

1/2 to 3/4 gals per hour will add up in hurry though with my 12.5 and Aqua Hot I sure notice the fuel use and cost

dtcerrato · September 08, 2021, 07:26:35 AM

Ditto
I just replaced five group 31s (house bank) & two 8Ds (start) all WLA for about the cost of one lithium. Just too many places to spend $$$ these days... Besides I'm old school...

Quote from: luvrbus on September 08, 2021, 04:34:36 AM
Some people spend a ton of money on a battery bank ? why,I stopped in Fallon Nv to help a guy in a GM 4104 that had just spent 12 grand on Battle Born Lifepo batteries. The bus was worth about 5K tops probably less with a blown 6-71.I cannot see people paying 10 bucks a amp hour for batteries plus the solar system

belfert · September 08, 2021, 08:31:14 AM

I figure something like 100 gallons of diesel for my big trip every year to run the generator 24x7. That is the same or less than the cost of just one AGM battery for my house bank. I still have batteries that work for the moment so that is a decision to make in the future.

Jim Blackwood · September 08, 2021, 09:02:22 AM

Going the other way on the posts. Battery has studs, cable has clamps. So I ordered the screw-on posts. Order was delayed until tomorrow maybe.

All good info but guys let me re-emphasize again the budget concerns if you don't mind. I've found what looks to be a reasonably good $200 charging solution that is essentially maintenance free. Basically, wire it into the bus and forget it maybe? (Probably won't work that way because it has a power-up sequence requiring manual input but still, 24v/35A at that price and microprocessor monitoring?) If anyone knows of a better bang for the buck I'd love to see it. At present anything over $200 is overbudget. When I get the house batteries I'll look at charging solutions for those.

Watering: Doesn't look like that is in my immediate future either as they seem to be kinda expensive for bits of tubing and zip ties. I guess the caps are special though.

Jim

windtrader · September 08, 2021, 02:28:48 PM

QuoteIt would be nice if there was an engine mounted alternator which was setup to safety and properly charge lithium battery banks like you'd have, but I don't think I've seen one yet. With something like this it would be much easier to have a single lithium bank.

The PV array should always keep the bank charged, except where there may be days of dreary weather. In those instances, the genny can charge the battery up in a few hours.

Have no idea how much energy the bus uses to keep running once started. Headlights, wipers run on air i think, aux radiator fans, running lights, not much. Convert the lights to LED and not alot needed. Main concern is protecting the main lithium bank from everything bad possible that the bus can do to the battery. A huge diode (current direct only) from battery to bus would protect any surge back to battery but without an alternator not sure what could over load the battery.

luvrbus · September 08, 2021, 06:09:37 PM

Quote from: windtrader on September 08, 2021, 02:28:48 PM
The PV array should always keep the bank charged, except where there may be days of dreary weather. In those instances, the genny can charge the battery up in a few hours.

Have no idea how much energy the bus uses to keep running once started. Headlights, wipers run on air i think, aux radiator fans, running lights, not much. Convert the lights to LED and not alot needed. Main concern is protecting the main lithium bank from everything bad possible that the bus can do to the battery. A huge diode (current direct only) from battery to bus would protect any surge back to battery but without an alternator not sure what could over load the battery.

I wonder how long it will be before some bus guy figures out how to charge his batteries at the charging stations NV is installing at all their rest areas in the middle of nowhere. I was surprised to see those at a rest areas ,then in NV sometimes it is 200 miles between towns.A trucker told me the one in area 51 was for our outer space visitors just a rumor he heard

Jim Blackwood · September 08, 2021, 08:50:26 PM

Could stick a wind turbine on top of it I suppose. It'd be great on the highway and as long as you parked in windy locations, no worries. Right?

I think one of those barrel shaped ones might do the trick, mounted on a center pivot so it could turn to face the wind. Could be as wide as the bus and surely a couple feet in diameter.

Jim

luvrbus · September 09, 2021, 09:53:43 AM

Quote from: Jim Blackwood on September 08, 2021, 08:50:26 PM
Could stick a wind turbine on top of it I suppose. It'd be great on the highway and as long as you parked in windy locations, no worries. Right?

I think one of those barrel shaped ones might do the trick, mounted on a center pivot so it could turn to face the wind. Could be as wide as the bus and surely a couple feet in diameter.

Jim

People in Quartzsite have those and if you are close it is impossible for me to sleep if the wind starts blowing it sounds like a bunch of helicopters flying over you at 2 am

Jim Blackwood · September 09, 2021, 11:32:47 AM

Interesting. I bet someone savvy with airfoil design could make up one with quiet blades. Maybe give them a twist, and use an odd number of blades irregularly spaced, then use a full 2 sided airfoil design and make sure it maintains laminar flow. Things like that

Jim

buswarrior · September 09, 2021, 03:51:46 PM

Quote from: Jim Blackwood on September 09, 2021, 11:32:47 AM
Interesting. I bet someone savvy with airfoil design could make up one with quiet blades.
Jim

They have been trying for decades, and haven't got there yet.

Deploy one of those weedwhackers, and you'll soon discover it has suffered a mysterious blade breaking "bird strike".

Even polite company will go rogue on that nonsense...

Stick to silent solar and hospital grade mufflers on the noisemaker.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

epretot · October 13, 2021, 05:41:14 PM

If you were purchasing lead acid house batteries, what amp hour makes sense?

Is one 200 amp hour better than 2 100 amp hour?

I'm leaning towards solar more and more. I will have a 10kw genny as well.

buswarrior · October 13, 2021, 05:48:28 PM

Quote from: epretot on October 13, 2021, 05:41:14 PM
If you were purchasing lead acid house batteries, what amp hour makes sense?

Is one 200 amp hour better than 2 100 amp hour?

I'm leaning towards solar more and more. I will have a 10kw genny as well.

An amp hour is an amp hour.

The number of packages doesn't change the calculations.

Lead acid, you design to not use more than half of them before re-charge.

Common 6 volt golf cart batteries, from a high volume dealer, continue to win the cost battle, somewhere ~220 aH each, depending on brand.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

epretot · October 13, 2021, 05:52:03 PM

What about space saving? Does a higher amp hour make sense for that.

Given I'm starting from scratch...

buswarrior · October 13, 2021, 06:21:04 PM

There's no magic bullet.

You need lead to make amp hours. The more you want, the more you need.

Cruise a few battery sites, do some back of napkin math, be sure you are getting your math into similar values, build up to your target voltage for each example and cost your price per amp hour. You'll also find 8 volt batteries, as well as 6 and 12.

Beware that many 12 volt batteries are NOT the proper deep cycle batteries a busnut needs. If it says marine or RV, be very very suspicious...

For the install, get them stacked, in a pull out rack, made by you for the purpose. Too many people waste a ton of floor space, laying them all out.

Size the rack to house the taller Trojans, or L16 battery cases, if you ever feel inspired to go there in the future, and you need total access to the tops, to inspect and top-off water levels. The easier it is to inspect, the more likely it will get done...

The Lithiums are all the rage, but require more than a decades' worth of battery money to get going. Totally unnecessary expense in a vacation coach, and many full timers don't need them either.

Again, apples to oranges, you need their whole cost, lithium cells AND the BMS, if it isn't included, in cost calculation comparisons.

happy coaching!
buswarrior