Lion Energy Lithium Batteries - A No-brainer

[richard5933]

...swapping RV reefer for high efficiency residential unit reduces consumption to about 1kW ...

Have you considered a 12vdc fridge instead of the residential? They sip the electrons very slowly.

Even if you found a residential which only pulled 1 amp @ 120vac, that's 10 amps from your battery bank being sapped. My Vitrifrigo only consumes 5.7 amps when it runs, which is about 1/2 the time. This would cut your daily consumption even more.

[windtrader]

Have you considered a 12vdc fridge instead of the residential? They sip the electrons very slowly.

Richard, I did explore (briefly) 12v reefers but my impression is they cost quite a bit more expensive than a commodity big box 10 ft3 unit. I stopped looking further.

The phrase "diminishing returns" comes to mind. Given the box store product uses about 1kW a day and the 12v electron sipping ones use half or about 500 watts (guesstimating), saving 500 watts a day is barely noticeable in the overall consumption of a fully off-grid electrical powered RV. The value proposition just was not there for me, not even close and an easy one to check off.

Adding a panel fills the electrical deficiency gap and resolving a badly broken unit is as simple as buying and swapping with another el cheapo.  I'm guessing parts and service for the niche 12v apartment sized units is a painful experience while swiping the CC card. Just my assessment.

btw - i PM'd you here some time back, here or over there.

[luvrbus]

 Careful when choosing a residential fridge for a RV some of the smaller fridges have the cooling coils  mounted on each side and cannot be built in, one of the major builders of class C and class A have a huge recall on those fridges because they don't work built in without a lot of ventilation lol I read the install manual on 1 the only place it will work is setting out with nothing around it   

[windtrader]

Clifford,
Thanks for the tips on using residential in RV. I've decided to simply put up with running reefer off propane for the time being. Propane is very efficient and very low cost so as long as stove remains propane may as well leave reefer alone until doing full propane removal by swapping cooktop to induction and reefer together. Not like I got no other bus projects on the list.

[Fred Mc]

My fridge is propane.Works great. Its a Norcold and is over 30 years old.Just replaced a
circuit board recently and works fine. New ones are pretty expensive so I was looking at residential fridges but you either pay for a new propane fridge or pay for enough battery to run an electric one for a couple of days. I have propane for cooking and heating  anyway. As someone (NOT someguy)said "do it your way"

[Jim Blackwood]

Maybe things have changed (certainly solar is doing that for some for better or worse, depending) but I owned a Dometic 3 way some while ago. Actually have owned a couple of them, and what you want a fridge to be is unobtrusive. Just work without causing any inconvenience at all if possible. On gas or hookups it was just that. Never noticed it at all except to use it. On 12v it was a different matter, as it had a habit of draining the batteries and then dying. Now admittedly I didn't have the massive battery bank back in those days but it was the one thing that I could count on to cause me trouble if I used it in 12v mode. So I quit doing that, and the next fridge I bought was a Norcold 2 way. End of problem. Never missed the 12v even on the road, the Norcold traveled just fine on propane.

Sure, with a proper solar setup I can see that not being an issue but if 1 panel is the cost between an RV fridge and a residential unit that means the residential takes 2 panels and so add about $2K to the cost of the residential fridge and suddenly we have parity with the cost of the RV fridge, not including the cost of batteries and power conditioners, associated wiring and labor. And since you can't count on 100% sunny days you need another panel to catch up when it is sunny. In the end the residential fridge is arguably the more expensive option of the two.

I suppose eventually they will get the efficiency up and the price down on flexible solar panels with adhesive backing that you can just roll out and stick down, at which point we can all paper the entire roof of the bus to supply all our energy needs. I look forward to that day. In the meantime I see it as a supplemental energy source which can help but isn't ready to replace the conventional ones yet.

And, I don't think electric will ever replace gas on the range top for the discriminating chef. Even if he/she is an RV chef.

Jim

[luvrbus]

I have a 2 burner induction top to get one that works good they draw a lot of amps and cost a lot,the $150 2 burner induction 110v is pretty useless btdt and spent 3 times the money for a good one 

[Lin]

Jim, We have an induction cooktop at home.  I would never to go back to gas or coil electric. The heat control is really fantastic, and there is very little waste heat added to the room.  Of course, I am not a master chef.

If one really dry camps a lot there is a good justification for solar.  My concern is that our desert gets kind of warm, and I would hate to need to avoid a shady parking space for the sake of some solar panels.  We actually did buy about 30+ feet of flexible solar on the closeout, but sold them when considering the shade versus solar issue.

[chessie4905]

In past years the downside to 12v-110 norcolds was they were hard to properly cool in hot weather. People added tiny fans inside to help circulate the air around or put a dash fan at the bottom to better force air up through the coils. The issues with propane back then was level operation and freezing in non freezer area.

[windtrader]

All I read and get from my son who has induction is very positive. The shade/sun solar dilemma is solved I hope by having panels with quick release fasteners so they can be easily and quickly ground deployed for optimal PV performance. Will have to ponder cable runs but probably disconnect and use spare sets when ground deployed.


The Norcold is running on 120AC and cools fine, just gulps electricity like baby from a bottle.

Today, the panel array is about 60% and no clouds but plenty of smoke and haze from the wildfires in NorCal. If that sort of reduction is typical for less than full on sunny days, more panels on order. Once I rip that other ugly roof wart off, 4 more can go up for another 1kW PV generation. Still, under similar conditions that is only 600watts but over the day that should generate about 3kW so worth the effort.

[sledhead]

What batteries did you get? When I try and search for these I'm only finding 2v and 4v models, none of which seem like they would be drop-in replacements for either 6v or 12v.

I have been looking at something like this ? as a replacement for my 6 golf cart batteries I have now ( 660 amps total )
this is in Canadian dollars so you US guys should find a nice savings on the price
https://www.cdnsolar.ca/shop-wholesale-solar-products/vision-agm-batteries/

dave

[luvrbus]

Induction cooking is nothing new it has been around since the 1930"s Sonja has been using it since the 90's and has a induction tea pot also,any pot a magnet will stick to works on those aluminum pans will not work for induction cooking 

[Jim Blackwood]

I want some of whatever you smoke.

No, I really think you don't.
Here's a guy who has been so lucky that he has no clue just how bad it can get. Well why not, the odds say there is someone out there who will never have it all cascade into the 7th level of hell, but for most of us that risk is there every time we turn on something more complex than a relay. And if there is one and only one thing a computer is good at, it is in initiating and sustaining a cascade failure. Who else here hasn't experienced the joys of noticing one little thing that wasn't quite perfect and within an hour or two was fighting the raging out of control fire threatening to burn your entire life down?

The promise of computers has always been and still is that they could simplify our lives. Ever notice how since they came around we've been running faster and faster in ever decreasing circles? There's a drain in the middle of that mess somewhere.

Jim

[Lin]

The solution to most mechanical and computer problems is simply reversing entropy. We can tackle that right after perpetual motion.

https://www.realclearscience.com/lists/10_greatest_ideas_in_the_history_of_science/entropy_universe_tends_toward_disorder.html

[windtrader]

The promise of computers has always been and still is that they could simplify our lives. Ever notice how since they came around we've been running faster and faster in ever decreasing circles? There's a drain in the middle of that mess somewhere.

Having been active participant to this hyper evolution of man and machine, we are, for better or worse, in a unique period of the most rapid and pervasive technological advancement, ever.


While every period of change is unsettling and cause or great consternation, humans adapt. Through this and the next couple generations of humans on earth, this state of humanity will be present. At the point when man and machine establish equilibrium and co-exist on mutually beneficial terms, humans are going to feel the angst and stress natural while the transformation is underway.


Soon singularity will be reality and man-machine interface will mature. We see it everyday , just open your eyes to the advancements arriving daily, literally. Elon Musk is pushing the line of man-machine. Read Bostrom and Kerzweil, they make it so clear where this is all going. We already have the ability to manufacture and alter human beings. Look how much advancement has occurred in the past one hundred years. Anybody who listened to any typical current day would think you were absolutely insane. Given the exponential rate of change, the next hundred year checkpoint is truly incomprehensible.


Now back to lithium batteries ...