Lion Energy Lithium Batteries - A No-brainer

[luvrbus]

Who makes the 138 amp 12 V Lithium you see around cell towers and hospitals they are green  in color,I think Battle Born will be on the list for a long time unless the guy was blowing smoke they were the 1st manufacture to go after the RV market, paying that kind of money for a battery with a 1 year warranty I would stop and think   

[dtcerrato]

Our wallet just can't justify paying 10 times more for a battery without the 10 times more life. To me it's the greater discharge advantage but still not a deal maker IMO. We'll be staying the dinosaur route of wet lead acid a while longer.

[ccbmster]

"Who makes the 138 amp 12 V Lithium you see around cell towers and hospitals they are green  in color"

Those would be Valence batteries

[luvrbus]

Our wallet just can't justify paying 10 times more for a battery without the 10 times more life. To me it's the greater discharge advantage but still not a deal maker IMO. We'll be staying the dinosaur route of wet lead acid a while longer.

They have their advantage but I can get 255 amps and 5 year warranty from Lifeline for 700 buck retail like you I am going to hang on since my 8D Lifelines are not a year old yet

[chuckdrum]

 "paying that kind of money for a battery with a 1 year warranty I would stop and think" -luvrbus

Not sure where you got the 1 year warranty.  Battle Born has a 10-year warranty.  Lion is "lifetime", but that's the lifetime of the battery according to the recharge counter built into their product.  If the product fails before 3500 charges, they'll replace it (granted, that's a LOT of recharging).  But if it fails, how accurate is the internal counter?!

[richard5933]

Our wallet just can't justify paying 10 times more for a battery without the 10 times more life. To me it's the greater discharge advantage but still not a deal maker IMO. We'll be staying the dinosaur route of wet lead acid a while longer.

I'm waiting till the advantages become valuable enough for us to justify the expense. The things that are attractive for us are: more power per pound (fewer pounds needed), much faster recharge making solar more attractive, and steady voltage throughout the discharge.

[dtcerrato]

The panels are warranted for 25 years so to me that's an investment. I don't mind getting 5 to 7 years from WLA. Also haven't came around to 100% dependency on solar, just a percentage & longer intervals between genny use...

[luvrbus]

"paying that kind of money for a battery with a 1 year warranty I would stop and think" -luvrbus

Not sure where you got the 1 year warranty.  Battle Born has a 10-year warranty.  Lion is "lifetime", but that's the lifetime of the battery according to the recharge counter built into their product.  If the product fails before 3500 charges, they'll replace it (granted, that's a LOT of recharging).  But if it fails, how accurate is the internal counter?!

[luvrbus]

The guy at factory I thought he told me 1 year free replacement , it will be years before anyone knows for sure how long one will last,I have access to the Valence 138 amp 12 V,they are changed out every year with low charges the high charges are discarded , I am going to try 2 in my Trek RV,right now there is a huge markup on those that will drop as more and more manufactures enter the race   

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

Not sure everyone has noticed but we now have the full 5-part article about the Advantages of Lithium batteries by Jerry Work on our Blog. Anyone considering them should read this article as it is full of interesting information. Click here to read it now.

https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/the-advantages-of-lithium-batteries-for-bus-conversions/

Also, Lion Energy has offered all BCM subscribers a 15% discount on their Lithium Batteries.  Use this link and you will only pay $850 for each battery which has a lifetime guarantee. I have 4 of them and I like them much better than the 8 Trojan T-105 batteries I had before as they seem to run twice as long between having to run my generator.  The fuel savings alone will pay for them over time as they charge about twice as fast as lead acid batteries, let alone the additional peace and quiet from not having to run your generator which is priceless when alone in the woods.

The 15% discount will appear when you check out, not before. 

https://lionenergy.com/?afmc=BCM15OFF

If you like peace and quiet, you will love the Lion Energy batteries.

[peterbylt]

I have been researching this issue, there are some good deals out there if you are willing to do the research and take a bit of a gamble.

I plan on building the solar system a little at a time.

Currently my house system consists of my two old 8D start batteries, I moved them over when I bought new start batteries, these batteries still have a bit of life left in them, but need replaced within the next year.

These batteries are charged by a Powermax 45 amp power supply/4 stage charger.

For what it is, it works great, I currently do not go off grid much at all, so we are either plugged in or running on the generator, with a few over nights and weekends unplugged, no issues.

I am looking to become a little more off grid.

So far I have purchased 2 of these solar panels:

https://store.santansolar.com/product/santan-solar-t-series-250w/

I would like to eventually have 8 panels.

When I install them they will be initially charging the 8Ds
The next step will be the batteries.

A friend has these batteries:   

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Battery-cell-calb-grade-a-100ah_62511706264.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.493450b2dcuJkA&s=p

4 cells equals one 12 volt battery, he has a total of 16 cells wired as 4 -12 volt batteries, wired series/parallel as 2 - 24 volt batteries = 200ah, has had great performance from them.

You also have to install and match the solar charger for what you have and configure the batteries with the BMS (Battery Monitoring system) and set up a display for the state of the system.

My friends Solar build for his 102A3:

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/2000-watt-1500-watt-24v-off-grid-solar-power-system-1989-mci-102aw3.8304/

The batteries that I have my eyes on are these:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/4PCS-Lifepo4-Rechargeable-3-2V-280Ah_62401757288.html?spm=a2756.order-detail-ta-ta-b.0.0.5f8d2fc2Tnn1ty&bypass=true

The ultimate goal for me is to be able to run the refrigerator and the Minisplit 24 hours a day without issue, that will take a while on my limited Solar power budget.

Lots of good info on this forum:

https://diysolarforum.com/

Peter

[ktmossman]

As I have said before, I am planning to go "all-in" on solar and lithium on mine when I get to that point.  However, there is one thing we should all keep in mind when talking about warranties on solar equipment and batteries. 

The warranty is only as good as the longevity of the company behind it.  I love a 25 year warranty on solar panels.  But, what are the realistic chances that company will exist in 10 years, much less 25?

Both of these industries are still in their infancy, especially as it relates to the newer technologies.  So, both Lithium battery and solar companies are being started and disappearing are a pretty good clip, and will for some time.  And it doesn't necessarily mean they are failing.  Some of them are failing, but some are succeeding and being bought up.

Some of these companies never intend to be a long term supplier.  It is common in the tech world (especially in emerging technologies) for a company to sell re-branded merchandise (like a battery) as a temporary revenue engine, while their real goal is the development of a very specific component technology (like a BMS) which they hope to sell to a larger company (like a battery manufacturer).  And when they sell the company, the buyer is really buying that specific technology, and disposes with the rest of the company.

Whether they disappear because they succeed or fail, in either case, the warranty rarely survives.  Do I prefer a company that will warranty a product for 25 years vs 10?  Sure?  But I will temper that decision with some reality on whether or not that warranty will still have any meaning if I actually need it in year 15.

[windtrader]

The other five chemistries also called lithium all have significant issues that make them far less than ideal for use in a bus conversion.

I really caution you not to get caught up in the idea of cracking open electric vehicle batteries to harvest these cells for use in your bus.

If you like peace and quiet, you will love the Lion Energy batteries.

Gary,
Too bad the article author is a shill for Lion and LFP. Li-ion is used by many EV makers such as Tesla, Nissan, Hhevy Volt/Bolt, BMW, etc. etc.

Too bad a disservice to this virtually DIY group who have cajones to DIY a battery pack. Building one seems pretty similar to the typical hazardous activities involved in driving and maintaining a 20 ton commercial vehicle.

Maybe do an article lifting the skirt on DIY house bus battery.

[luvrbus]

I am in the same boat with a lot people with a energy hogs RV with the huge double door fridges and other thing that use power.I am not going to install solar on my roof for one thing and spend time looking for a place to park,and I don't believe the world is ending tomorrow and we won't have electricity.Building a self supporting energy RV cost a lot of money but RV parks cost a lot now for overnighting  like 60 bucks a night were we  are parked so it is a double edge sword for me,full timers may can justify the cost but I can't   

[Dave5Cs]

Fulltimers pay by the month, 6 months or a year which isn't as bad. We found when we stay 3 days that you can get the week rate for less and just leave early. What does a Hotel cost these days for one night 125.00 to 300.00 plus don't take the beer out of their little refrigerator it will be on the bill at the desk and cost you 25.00 etc.