Jake brake vs. Exhaust brake

[skipn]

  Since we have been comparing things.

  Which do you think is better and why? Jake brake or exhaust brake.
  Real life expeirences appreciated but this isn't a "when is it proper to use" thread.
  There already is/are thread/threads covering that
  such things as cost, ease of maintenance, ease of use, reliability, real stopping capability etc.

   Thanks

    Skip

[captain ron]

Aren't they the same?  I have a tranny break but would love to have Jakes.

[skipn]

Nope

    Jake goes on the valve train (over simplified) Exhaust brake goes on the
exhaust pipe after the turbo.

    here is a link to one brand: http://www.pacbrake.com

    Exhaust brakes have been around for years it is that I never have driven with one.

   Skip

[Dallas]

Skip,
Years ago, I drove for a company that used "Blue Ox" exhaust brakes on 3406A and B Cat engines. (Not the same company as the tow bar people).

Blue Ox

Basically the Blue Ox was a flapper valve that went in the exhaust pipe and did very little if any good at slowing the truck down on a grade.

I once hauled a load of 4' blade fans stacked on the top of a load. They were free to turn because the shipper couldn't get into them through the housings. Those 4 fans killed my fuel mileage from 5.8mpg to 3.2mpg and I didn't have to touch the brakes going down cabbage hill in Oregon.

Normally, with the Blue Ox operating I would have to keep a steady pressure on the brakes all the way down.

In my personal opinion, the Blue Ox was the most worthless piece of junk ever built.

YMMV.

Dallas

GO BUSSING

[belfert]

To confuse things further, Jacobs makes an exhaust brake called a Jake Brake for smaller Cummins engines (Dodge pickups and RVs), and the more traditional Jake Brake that is a compression brake.

Over on rv.net, sticks and staples owners who have used both an exhaust brake and a compression brake would never go back to an exhaust brake.

[skipn]

 Thanks Brian more clarity just to much stuff out there.


   Dallas:

        For a reference point for me and maybe others Cabbage Hill is approx 6% grade into Pendleton.
      How would my bus look with fan blades on top? Probably would need a variable pitch blade set-up!


   Skip

[Jerry32]

I had an exhaust brake on a cummins in a MH and you couldn't tell the difference from when it was on or off. Made no difference. Jerry

[larryh]

I have taken many a exhaust brake setup trucks and installed Jake's there is no comparsion of the 2 systems this is on heavy duty trucks hauling gross loads. In our heavy haul trucks 500HP cats all three hooked to one load and all jakes on I could stop a 450 thousand lb load fairly quick of course that was 1500 hp jakes talking hard.

so for my 2 cents go Jakes and I did haul 355,000 down cabbage patch hill and never touched service brakes once avg speed was about 18 MPH talk about braking took all the white knuckly out of it and brown stains out of shorts.

LarryH

[Dallas]

Thanks Brian more clarity just to much stuff out there.


   Dallas:

        For a reference point for me and maybe others Cabbage Hill is approx 6% grade into Pendleton.
      How would my bus look with fan blades on top? Probably would need a variable pitch blade set-up!


   Skip

Skip,
If you put them side by side you could pretend you were a B-29,
OR.... if you put them one after the other, you could pretend you were a wind tunnel! 

[skipn]

  Well that's just great I'd have to paint my bus Air Camo
  or plain neutral grey and install a  smoke machine oh wait
  run the exhaust to the front and go with more feul.

   So far it doesn't sound to good for the Exhaust brake concept.


  Skip

[Dallas]

  Well that's just great I'd have to paint my bus Air Camo
  or plain neutral grey and install a  smoke machine oh wait
  run the exhaust to the front and go with more feul.

   So far it doesn't sound to good for the Exhaust brake concept.


  Skip

How about adding a Bofurs, a couple of Gatlings and a 105 Howitzer? Then you could call it "Puff"

[boogiethecat]

 Thus far I've had both types of brakes on my Crown..  I just dumped the jakes for a telma.

My rating in terms of arsclenching when coming down steep grades on a scale of 1-10, 1 being a real arsclencher, 10 being really a safe feeling...

Nothing...........1...not a good feeling anywhere/anytime

Exhaust brake..2-3 at best- better than nothing but not much

Jake brakes.....Jakes get a 6 from me although still some arsclenching from time to time

Telma retarder...10... LOTS of spare braking power in reserve anytime/any grade, even when pulling a 6000 pound trailer

[Barn Owl]

I got my jakes working the day before my trip last week. One thing I like about them is they are super easy to work on. I kept mine turned off most of the time because they were working to well. I do get tired of feathering the throttle to keep them off, so I mostly used the switch if I needed them. Even comming down the west side of Afton Mt. on 66 I had to turn them off because I would slow down more than I needed to. My biggest dislike with mine is that they are set up as a single stage unit at this time. When they activate it feels like I dropped anchor and the sudden deceleration is not as comfortable as gently applying the brakes. I need to wire them up as a two stage unit. I have thought about adding a floor switch that I could operate with my foot so I could briefly hit them when I wanted to. So far they have been more of a novelty than a necessity for me.

Questions for those who have them:

1:At what speed do your jakes cut out?
Mine does it at about 30mph. I have an auto so that might affect things.

2:Is the time when the jakes cut out adjustable?

[RJ]

Thus far I've had both types of brakes on my Crown..  I just dumped the jakes for a telma.

I'll agree that a Telma can produce more braking power than Jakes, and both are superior to a pacbrake.

But, Gary, when you talk about the Telma, you've got to remember to add the caveat that they won't fit on 99.9% of the pusher powertrain buses, because the driveshaft's too short.  That's not so much a problem with your mid-ship Crown.


Skipn -

I've said this before, and I'll say it again:  Between Reno Nv and Sacratomato, CA, WB on I-80, you've got 70 miles of 4, 5 and 6 percent downgrades.  MC-9 loaded with 44 passengers and three full bays of luggage, with either the 8V71 or the 6V92 equipped with a Jake Brake, will hold 60 - 62 mph all the way down the hill without ever having to touch the service brakes, unless circumstances force it.

Same with coming off the Grapevine (I-5 between Bakersfield and Los Angeles) either NB or SB, mostly 6%, again holding at 60 - 62 mph w/o using the service brakes.

Even useful on the speed bumps they call mountains along the eastern part of the US.

Well worth the money, and an excellent SAFETY DEVICE, too!

FWIW & HTH. . .

[TomC]

There is one very important point that has not been brought up.  On two strokers, the Jake brake is the ONLY engine retarder you can use.  If you do retrofit an exhaust brake to a two stroke engine, you'll be putting all the strain of the stuffed up exhaust on the blower and cause it to fail-or blow sky high!  So with any of the Detroit 2 strokers, you have the choice of a Jake brake on the engine, or a transmission retarder or a Telma retarder-but not the exhaust brake.  Good Luck, TomC