Aqua heat systems

[petarm1]

I scanned through the old posts that i could find but could not find the answers i was looking for.  I am not going to put any airconditioners in my bus. I am going with maxx airs and windows that  open.
I am now looking into heating. I'm not a big fan of the forced air furnace in my current bus because i hate things blowing on me. So i have been considering something like the aqua heat systems. The answer i was trying to find in the posts i was reading is:  are they worth it? Yes or no
Thanks for any input.
Petar

[TomC]

Aqua Hot still has blowing heat exchangers. Except if you refloor and install radiant heat.

Please reconsider you not putting in air conditioning. There will be times that being able to cool yourself, and also de-humidify the bus is a big advantage. I have 3-13,500btu Colemans, that 2 work up to 105 degrees keeping the interior at 75 (I just used the A/C's today getting some $2.65 Diesel). Plus, when you go to sell it, no one will want a big fancy bus without air conditioning. I run my generator and roof airs going down the road. Good Luck, TomC

[richard5933]

A furnace installed in an ideal way would not be blowing on you. Our LP house furnace has the outlets just above the floor, which is a great location since heat rises. You'd have to be sitting on the floor to feel the air move.

If you are installing an Aqua Hot, you can use a series of toe-kick heat exchange units installed under cabinets and furniture which work on either one big loop or on a few different zones. They will blow the air down low where you won't feel it.

I agree with the a/c decision. At the least, you should do the prep work for installing one later on by running the wiring to the location and framing out the opening while things are accessible. If you or a future owner decide to add a/c later on, the cost and aggravation will only be a fraction of what it would be if you had to tear things apart to do the work.

[petarm1]

I was going to run the wireing to 3 of the maxx airs for future a/c installation.  I thought of keeping this bus build simpler by going with forced air and a hot water tank. But the thought of a tankless hot water and a system that has 5 zone heating. Not convinced that 1.5 gallons per minute is fast enough to supply the hot water needed for a shower or the all in one wash machine. My 102d3 has the wabasto heater in it already and was thinking of useing it in some way.
Thanks

[freds]

You might look into mini-split heat pumps to kill two birds with one stone. There are a number of them that have been installed in buses and they have the benefit of being able to run off of solar.

I am in the process of a DIY hydronic system which I expect to come in for less than half what they want for an Aqua hot.

[Jim Blackwood]

Your Webasto can put out 89-90,000 btu of heat and it is free. Whether you modify the existing system of radiators and fans or just replace them entirely is up to you but it's a good place to be starting from. OTR it will work very well and also keep the engine from running too cold. For stationary heat if you want to eliminate airflow an electric radiant floor heat system would work pretty well but a fluid system would require the burner to run almost all the time I would think. Not very efficient operation for the webasto.

Jim

[TomC]

If you've read about AquaHot, you'll also see that there is ALOT of maintenance with this system.
On my bus I use a propane Atwood 40,000btu furnace (that I've replaced once in 20 years) with 4 outlets that heats the bus very quickly (5min). I also didn't want propane-so only my furnace and stove are propane. I have a tank mounted solenoid with a switch inside to shut the gas supply off when not in use.
Then for hot water I have 2-10gal electric water heaters-one feeding into the next with the final one powered through the inverter to have hot water during the day. No heat exchanger (simpler). After 26 years of being in my bus, I just recently replaced both water heaters with the same brand-which are actually a bit smaller.
These methods are so good, I've repeated them in my truck conversion.
Also, my bus is wired straight 120v (so is the 10kw generator). Hence when at the power pole, I only have one leg of 50amp. I have never found that to be limiting. But then you don't have to worry about "balancing the load" on the generator. Good Luck, TomC

[richard5933]

On the tankless water heaters, the limiting factor I've found is the flow rate they need to start heating. My low-flow shower head wouldn't be enough to trigger it.

Our first bus had the furnace mounted in a bay, with the ducting running under the floor across the top of the bays. Was actually quite nice, as all the noise was down blow and it allowed for the ducting to be run without worrying about how it would interfere with furniture.

[dtcerrato]

We lean heavily on propane but have some redundancy. A forced air Atwood Excaliber 2334 gives the choice of 23000 or 34000 btu or auto mode. It dumps heat into the original equipment hvac ducting. It takes longer than 5 min to heat the bus but time between runs is greatly extending as heat it everywhere - not just the cabin. We also run closer to the bedroom a propane vented vintage Empire radiant heater - no fan needed, no spark or battery needed & has an optional blower to push 8000 of it's 15000 btu into the insulated holding tank compartment. There is also 1800 watt heat elements on the original hvac heater core - no AC but great otr heat. For water heaters we run a 6 gal propane & a 19 gal electric 110 vac. It all works very well in temps below 0. Two refers 1 is propane the other 12vdc or 110vac.

[skihor]

I used a 20K forced air propane in the rear and a 40K in the middle. I used 1 duct from each and ran them into my "water" bay. I've kept water flowing at
-16* F

[buswarrior]

Using hydronic heating has its benefits and its pains...

You may choose simple radiant heat, which needs some mileage of radiators to give off enough heat, and/or you can use fan powered heat exchangers/toe kicks.  All of these gather dust.

Hydronic is a lovely way to keep your bays warm, and offers a ready way to moderate the system's operation by choosing or not to deploy that big heat sink downstairs in spring/fall temps.

You already have a coolant boiler, which you want working, the first time you run the bus in the cold you will be shocked at how little extra heat the engine makes for warming the interior. In fact, it will only stay in operating temp out on the highway, going cold in city driving, or never warming up.

The plumbing and methodology of that coolant boiler's relationship to the engine must be well understood, self inflicted overheating loops can readily be created, if it isn't proven to be properly working, and or if you carve into it wrong. Warning! The reasons many busnuts inherit non-functional webastos, and the rad cooling fans permanently engaged is failure in this area. Previous owner "solved" their problem by pulling the wires on the webasto, and running the fans, instead of getting to the heart of the matter.

Where/how do you camp? The exhaust from a coolant boiler can be both noisy and smells bad to others, depending on install methods. That exhaust needs to sent skyward without choking the burn chamber.

Provided some respect has been shown to the btu capability of the equipment, these make lovely even heat in the coach, once the air has been chased out of the pipes and the busnut installed air traps, they are quiet inside, will run fine off a set of decent batteries.

Nice to have a choice in an electric coach, being forced to choose between being cold, or run the generator isn't fun.

Coolant boilers need regular maintenance. You just do it. Those whose maintenance discipline is "wait 'til it breaks" won't have reliable heat.

Fwiw, hydronic will be part of my build.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[petarm1]

I thought of a mini split system with heat pump. I have a 10 000 watt generator in the bus i just installed. I will be living in the bus full time just like the bus i am in now. I am thinking of not haveing any propane or 12v systems in the bus. I was looking at 2 hot water tanks as well and electric base board heaters. This is also why i was considering hydronic system because it seems to cover all the needs.

I am doing the research on heated floor.
In my current bus i also use 2 8000 Olympian wave catalytic heaters to take the chill off in the morning.
Nice and quiet .

You have all givin me some great things to consider. Thanks

[chessie4905]

If you plan on being out in sub freezing temps, you may want some sort of backup. Heat pumps aren't very good at those temps. Otherwise they should be ok with proper capacity.

[richard5933]

No propane I understand.

No 12v systems? Do you mean 24v only or do you mean no DC circuits?

[buswarrior]

Be mindful, flat out theoretically, your 10kw generator can only make ~34k btu via electric heat.

Redundancy and layering is your design goal for a canadian live aboard.

Mini split when cheap power is available when temps are above x degrees
Hydronic comes along for silence and battery operation down to y degrees, and below that, run the generator and some electric heat, the batteries are being affected by the cold, block heater for engine, bay protection and all hands on deck, everything available so you don't freeze yer nuts off upstairs.

Any 1500 watt heater makes 5k btu, so at $20 per cube heater, that's easily and cheaply kept in a cupboard and mounted in a bay, for crisis support.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior