Broken Down off of I-10 Louisiana

luvrbus · January 24, 2020, 09:55:18 AM

Scott don't jump yet that is a 1995 year model the, DDEC IV is a better version and will work fine,the problem is the whole gear train on the rear,the back plate.gears and the bell housing would need to be changed plus the front motor mounts, the price is not to bad but I would offer him 6k and keep your core there are ton of the military DDEC lV out there just remember they are military spec,that engine does have a bypass blower you don't see that often on military engines.One major item I did not mention those engines do not have the special cam to drive the 50d alternator on your bus the head needs to come off to change the cam fwiw,IMO it is to much money for the work involved

windtrader · January 24, 2020, 10:48:36 AM

Since the true condition is not verified and seven thousand bucks plus related costs is a lot of money to gamble. Ask to get it hooked up, run it on dyno, capture all important readings. Going to cost some money but worth it for such a significant project. Another option is to get a written warranty long enough for your comfort.

True story. The PO of my bus had engine issues for some time, doing what was necessary to keep it going. His mechanic was pretty clear the proper solution was a total rebuild. After several breakdowns and wallets full of dollars, he finally decided to get the rebuild.

Please do the analysis such that you are confident you aren't trading one problem for another one, even though it may be down the road a bit. Weigh the cost differential against the inconvenience, delays, and deferred costs associated with a used motor.

Personally, I'd never touch a used one unless it was warranted or fully bench tested. Good luck.

luvrbus · January 24, 2020, 11:24:42 AM

Quote from: windtrader on January 24, 2020, 10:48:36 AM
Since the true condition is not verified and seven thousand bucks plus related costs is a lot of money to gamble. Ask to get it hooked up, run it on dyno, capture all important readings. Going to cost some money but worth it for such a significant project. Another option is to get a written warranty long enough for your comfort.

True story. The PO of my bus had engine issues for some time, doing what was necessary to keep it going. His mechanic was pretty clear the proper solution was a total rebuild. After several breakdowns and wallets full of dollars, he finally decided to get the rebuild.

Please do the analysis such that you are confident you aren't trading one problem for another one, even though it may be down the road a bit. Weigh the cost differential against the inconvenience, delays, and deferred costs associated with a used motor.

Personally, I'd never touch a used one unless it was warranted or fully bench tested. Good luck.

He needs to buy one from a bus a MCI or Prevost changing all the parts over to a bus application is not for the faint of heart on those engines and 98 % of the time military engines are good since they don't use one but 2000 hrs then replace it,Don sellers are not going to spend $1500.00 to have a used engine dyno tested it just doesn't happen if they don't have a in house dyno

Scott & Heather · January 24, 2020, 12:33:25 PM

I want to eliminate the cam driven alternator and go to a belt driven one to save me from a future grenade. But if you guys still think it's too much labor, I'll keep looking. The problem with the rebuild guys is it's a ton of money to have it done. My budget can barely suck up the engine transplant. So I have to be super smart and methodical about my next move.

luvrbus · January 24, 2020, 12:43:11 PM

If you are going to convert to a belt drive ok all you need to contend with is the air compressor the power steering pump drive is place but I don't know if the compressor will clear with a 0 tilt compressor on a MCI

Scott & Heather · January 24, 2020, 01:37:13 PM

Ok so compressor needs to be tilted? But on the military spec units it's not? So I have to change everything out anyway to get my hosing and gearset in there?

luvrbus · January 24, 2020, 01:46:38 PM

Scott it will take some work try and cut you deal with the guy I think he will deal because there is lot of those engines out there for sale,mine are machinal and I paid $2500.00 for a pair with Allison 740's

DoubleEagle · January 24, 2020, 07:18:55 PM

If it cost $4000 to clean up and put bearings in, it will surely cost a lot more to switch everything over on the military engine. I would not spend any more until you do an oil analysis to see how your engine is doing, and watch the oil pressure closely. You might get years of use out of what you have. What did the garage that did your bearings recommend? They are the ones who had a good look inside.

luvrbus · January 25, 2020, 05:54:00 AM

Quote from: DoubleEagle on January 24, 2020, 07:18:55 PM
If it cost $4000 to clean up and put bearings in, it will surely cost a lot more to switch everything over on the military engine. I would not spend any more until you do an oil analysis to see how your engine is doing, and watch the oil pressure closely. You might get years of use out of what you have. What did the garage that did your bearings recommend? They are the ones who had a good look inside.

Walter when a 8v92 beats the bearing out of the main caps like Scott's you can put a fork in it the poor things life is about over.I have one sitting in the yard the owner over dose the propane on it and beat the bottom end out of it.The 4 grand I thought was a little high but Scott was ok with it and was cheaper than a tow to FL plus his family had their home so I told him to go for it

sledhead · January 25, 2020, 06:06:41 AM

give them a call they did a great job on my out of frame rebuild . no web site

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Leid-Diesel-Service/135466509835330

dave

buswarrior · January 25, 2020, 06:36:15 AM

Brian Evans did a military engine swap, an 8V71, for his MC5.

Perhaps a phone call with him would help the decision?

He will be bored in the snow in nova scotia...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

DoubleEagle · January 25, 2020, 08:57:37 AM

Quote from: luvrbus on January 25, 2020, 05:54:00 AM

Walter when a 8v92 beats the bearing out of the main caps like Scott's you can put a fork in it the poor things life is about over.I have one sitting in the yard the owner over dose the propane on it and beat the bottom end out of it.The 4 grand I thought was a little high but Scott was ok with it and was cheaper than a tow to FL plus his family had their home so I told him to go for it

I have never beat the bearings out of anything, so I will have to agree with your greater experience. I do have to wonder what would have happened if that engine was not boosted to 500+ hp, and it had been checked with oil analysis occasionally. It looks like the PO put part of an in-frame kit into a very tired engine in order to sell it. Scott's experience should be a tale of caution for others.

luvrbus · January 25, 2020, 09:47:46 AM

Quote from: DoubleEagle on January 25, 2020, 08:57:37 AM
I have never beat the bearings out of anything, so I will have to agree with your greater experience. I do have to wonder what would have happened if that engine was not boosted to 500+ hp, and it had been checked with oil analysis occasionally. It looks like the PO put part of an in-frame kit into a very tired engine in order to sell it. Scott's experience should be a tale of caution for others.

I have 3 crates of new parts for that engine Scott gave me that never was installed including new rods and cam shaft>Scott is a smart young man him and Jack Conrad will get it done if he makes it to Jacks and I believe he will,I am guessing one of the crank shaft main bearing webs on the block broke like on Dale Houston's 8v92 DDEC,Dale's engine was a American Fleet recon engine that lasted 130,000 miles

niles500 · January 25, 2020, 02:22:48 PM

Scott, don't know where you will be in Florida but a friend has a D D E C 8v92 with about 30k miles on it out of a fire truck, there is a crack in turbo housing, he's on the north side of Ocala, let me know if your interested and I'll hook you up with him, Niles

Dreadnought · January 25, 2020, 04:51:15 PM

Quote from: luvrbus on January 25, 2020, 09:47:46 AM

I have 3 crates of new parts for that engine Scott gave me that never was installed including new rods and cam shaft>Scott is a smart young man him and Jack Conrad will get it done if he makes it to Jacks and I believe he will,I am guessing one of the crank shaft main bearing webs on the block broke like on Dale Houston's 8v92 DDEC,Dale's engine was a American Fleet recon engine that lasted 130,000 miles

I had a bit of a far off dream to modify an 8v92 and have some strategies for cooling before putting one into my MC5 (I have some potential 'racing solution' to apply to the radiators etc). I was going to also tackle the 92 series diabolically slow combustion which would also have a knock on impact on how much heat it rejects to coolant. But right now my 8v71 is fine and I was continuing to research into this and was even going to buy an old knackered engine which I would rebuild myself over the years. Based on Scotts experience and what you say - are the silver series 8v92s inherently weak?
I'd like to know. I was planning a twin turbo set up.

Im used to CAT C15s , DT466s and Maxxforce 13s. MAN 12.4 litres, in which you can ramp up the power and the longevity on something with a relatively light bus duty cycle and the durability barely goes down. I had assumed this was also the case on the 8v92s. Was that a bad assumption?