Moving closer to reality...questions

[ktmossman]

It seems the dream is moving steadily closer to reality.  As that happens, I am contemplating some of the practicalities surrounding the purchase and have a few questions:

1. What is a reasonable cost for having someone inspect the bus (assuming they are within 50 miles of the seller)? I am mostly concerned about mechanical/safety. (Is it safe to drive cross-country? Should I plan on replacing the engine and/or tranny in the next 3 years? Does the OTR A/C work?  Condition of brakes, air bag system, electrical, etc.)

2. Where can one get driver training?  While I'm not interested in licensing, I do want to be familiar and safe with the vehicle.

3. If I need to have the bus delivered, what is a reasonable cost/mile?

TIA...

[richard5933]

What part of the country are we talking about?

[lvmci]

If it passes the rust test and the engine runs properly, and your going to drive it home, tires and brakes should be the next thing to check. Read the oval date code, DOT 4 number date code, if they are older than 7 to 10 years or have dry rot on the side or between the tread, it's risky. Especially on the front tires. lvmci...

[ktmossman]

I am based in the DFW area, but I'm looking at buses all over the country.  Right now, there are a few in the Las Vegas area, one in TN, and one in FL that I am digging into details on.  There are a couple in the northeast as well, but I'm less keen on them.

[richard5933]

Lots of variables in your questions, and the answers will often be dependent on make/model of the bus, whether it has been in revenue service, whether it's been on salted roads, etc.

There are bus nuts in every corner of the country who would probably be happy to help you evaluate a bus if it's near them. There are also various shops around the country that can do a full inspection. Shop rates can be $125+ per hour at a shop, but I'd happily pay a few hours time rather than bring home a huge surprise. How thorough the inspection will depend on how much you want to spend, in my opinion, as to do things the most thoroughly the wheels should come off. Depending on the overall condition and how much paperwork is provided for previous service work, the amount of inspection required would vary.

How much experience do you have and how much of the inspecting do you feel comfortable doing yourself?

Delivery cost will depend largely on whether or not the bus is able to be driven, and if not how much effort it will take to get it rolling.

[Jim Blackwood]

I paid ~$1350 to bring a bus from Connecticut to Cincinnati. Seemed reasonable to me.

Houston was recently auctioning off 102DL3's, you might want to check locally, there may be more available.

Jim

[DoubleEagle]

Should I plan on replacing the engine and/or tranny in the next 3 years? Does the OTR A/C work?  Condition of brakes, air bag system, electrical, etc.)

Where can one get driver training?

If I need to have the bus delivered

If you buy a bus that needs major work (in the next three years), unless you are very handy mechanically, and you paid next to nothing for it, you would be making a mistake. If you feel you need driver training, that is a good self evaluation that will benefit you, but it also means that you have little experience with buses, and you are not prepared to drive it home after buying it. I would recommend getting more familiar with buses by getting someone to let you practice driving one, or getting commercial training before plunking your money down. Either you will enjoy driving a bus after getting comfortable with it, or you will be overwhelmed and uneasy. It is best to find out before hand. 

[ktmossman]

Thanks all...  DoubleEagle, you have hit on my concerns.  I don't have driver experience.  Thus, I need to get trained and I will likely need delivery of the bus (unless I can get the training first, but I would prefer to be trained in the bus I will be driving.)  And the point to an inspection is to have a reasonable view of the true state of the drivetrain, so I can make that decision.

One question still out there:  Where can I get training to drive one of these buses?  All of the commercial driver training I have found is for tractor-trailer drivers.  Doing a web search turned up nothing.

Any ideas?

[richard5933]

Thanks all...  DoubleEagle, you have hit on my concerns.  I don't have driver experience.  Thus, I need to get trained and I will likely need delivery of the bus (unless I can get the training first, but I would prefer to be trained in the bus I will be driving.)  And the point to an inspection is to have a reasonable view of the true state of the drivetrain, so I can make that decision.

One question still out there:  Where can I get training to drive one of these buses?  All of the commercial driver training I have found is for tractor-trailer drivers.  Doing a web search turned up nothing.

Any ideas?

Call around to the companies that provide training for school bus drivers in DFW, as well as asking at the local community colleges. They often have driver training programs.

Hopefully you'll be able to find an instructor in the area who will be willing to give you a few lessons on the side.

[DoubleEagle]

About the only training that I have seen for buses is for school buses. Since you do not need a CDL to drive your private bus conversion, your best hope is to find a bus conversion owner that is willing to give you lessons, perhaps as a condition to buying their bus. There are a lot of private buses in Texas, someone might be willing to help. Not having driving experience and not having mechanical now-how really puts you at a disadvantage, and a prime target for people that would take advantage of a conversion greenhorn. Most people with conversions have prior experience with trucks or commercial buses, or larger RV's. One thing is for sure, in order for you to make the leap into buses smoothly, it would be best to look at buses that have automatic transmissions, preferably Allison's like the HT740. Go to bus conversion gatherings and talk to the owners, get familiar with buses in general, and spend a lot of time going through the previous postings in this forum to build up your knowledge. The more you know, the more likely you will not be taken advantage of. 

[Jim Blackwood]

It's not that hard, but a sports car it ain't. If you can drive stick you can drive a bus with a stick. But, it is a big beastie and that can be overwhelming. The automatic makes it all a great deal easier. Happily, most of the 102's come that way. Now that's a wide and long bus, not to mention tall. Has a lot of heft also. So anything you do should be a well considered action and done as gradually as can be consistent with conditions. Which means, no tailgating. And no setting the autopilot and going back for a beer. Biggest best suggestion I can make is to maximize space around you, especially in front. Who cares if cage drivers keep jumping the line? You, had better not be in a hurry. If someone else is, no biggie, let 'em go. Never drive angry. Never drive frustrated. Check your mental state at the door, if it isn't right, don't go.

Turns are a big deal. Especially that right side rear tire. You'll need practice avoiding curbs and culverts. Until you get that down, take it extra slow so you don't damage your gear, and if it doesn't look right, don't push it. Use your side mirrors going around corners. Don't back up without a spotter or a rear view camera. Try to drive other big things. Worst case you can still go rent a Ryder truck I think, without showing a CDL. Play with one of those for awhile. Not a freebie but might be worth it. Go to RV sales places and test drive motorhomes. (Camping World has non-commissioned sales and are pretty accommodating, but start with something smaller to get the feel of it.) Find a large open parking lot.

Learn your controls. There are a lot of switches you don't want to be guessing at. And slow down to turn. You can't expect a bus to corner like the family car.

That should do for starters.

Jim

[Scott & Heather]

Don't take a drivers training class. Not necessary. If you can wait until around Christmas time, I'll be passing through Dallas and you can drive my coach. I'll give you some tips. The best thing you can do is drive one a around in a rural area for a few days without towing anything. Then as you're comfortable drive in a small town and work you way up to a bigger city. It's not rocket science and most of the brand newly trained truck drivers out there don't know squat about how to drive those rigs. It takes just doing it. My wife does all of our driving now. She has literally almost 70,000 miles of bus driving alone under her belt.

[buswarrior]

And Heather is so good at it, that she does it upside down too!

Bus drivers hit the stuff they don't look at.

Convex mirror, all the way around the corner, not your @$# around the corner, the bus's @$#, every time, all the time.

You hit poles and curbs after your nose goes back to the windshield prematurely.

Any movement sideways gets a mirror glance, before and during, first is to check for others, the second is to check on you.

Self correcting in time by watching, or be surprised by the sound of the crash.

To review, the sides of the coach do not waver from a straight line without watchful supervision, until the sides are going completely straight again.

What you do after thousands of miles of inner city driving is up to you, but until that time...

He who watches the sides does not crash.

And does not kill cyclists or pedestrians.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[chessie4905]

Do what it takes to become a driver for a charter bus company. That way you can get experience on their dime. They may even send you into downtown New York City, Chicago, or LosAngeles.

[Runcutter]

After a few decades of working with buses, including a stint as instructor at a private company 40+ years ago, I firmly believe the more training, the better.  There are several good thoughts already mentioned.  Since there is a national shortage of CDL drivers, getting on with one of the local charter operators --even part time -- may be a good approach.  Last weekend, my wife and I were judges at the local (DFW area) bus roadeo, even professional drivers lose points at maneuvering obstacles.  That's why it is a competition, with winners and losers.  At least there, when they hit something, it isn't fatal (the judges all have routes to run away from danger when the system's officials get behind the wheel for the Celebrity portion.  There's a line I use when teaching -- "I've made mistakes you haven't even thought of yet." 

So, a couple of options come to mind.  Contact the local charter operators.  Even if not for part time employment, see if one of them will let you sit in class, participate in maneuvering (of course, with your money involved.)  Since you're most likely to purchase a coach, their vehicles will have more in common with yours.  Another option is to contact the local transit system's training department, get names of someone they'd recommend to work with you -- of course directly, after hours as a side job.  Of course, that will be after you purchase a vehicle to work with.

In the industry, we don't let anyone loose on the street until they've mastered maneuvering through cones in the yard.  We don't let anyone out until they understand the basics of the vehicle, especially air brakes.  There was a fatal accident in the Boston Fire Department years ago, one of the contributing factors was the driver pumping the brakes of an air-braked ladder truck.  Again, even professional drivers make mistakes -- getting hung up on high breakover railroad crossings, BW's mention of cutting corners too sharp (the first time I moved a bus as a 16-year old, I broke a mirror and window this way), etc.  Training helps you learn from the experience of others, so you don't have to urinate on the electric fence for yourself.  (The aphorism is that a smart man learns from the experience of others, the wise man learns by reading, and the really intelligent man has to urinate on the electric fence for himself). 

If you provide a little more detail on your location (DFW area is pretty big), I may be able to help you with a couple of contacts.

Arthur