Help with choosing the right platform.

[grifter]

Howdy, long time lurker, first time poster :-)

My family and i (wife and 3 kids aged 9-13) currently own a 2008 Winnebago Sightseer 29R while the unit has been great for us in the past I think its time to move up and build a new unit on my own, based on a Prevost chassis. 

Currently we do two types of trips in our RV. 

• The first (most common for us) is heading into the mountains pulling a flat deck of ATV's and camping in heavily wooded areas where the existing 30' unit its a tight fit already.  Its high ground clearance, solar, upgraded battery capacity, large water capacity and ability to run almost all appliances off propane etc make it great for use away from hookups.
• The second use is more long distance.  I usually take one month off work a year and we head out in a specific direction without a real plan seeing how far we can get before having to head back.  Last year we made it almost all of the way across Canada and back home to Calgary Alberta via the USA stopping off at every possible point along the way. The Previous year we traveled from Calgary down to Mexico and back up along the west coast stopping at every town and city along the way.

While the existing unit we have is great for camping in the mountains i would like to create a better unit for taking long trips in.  Hopefully something that the wife and i can use more often once the kids have moved out on their own.  At this point i see myself keeping both units unless i could come up with a solution that works for both situations.

Here is a list of things I would like the new unit to have

• Be quite while driving down the road.  The Winnebago has hundreds of squeaks that come from the cabinets and windows that drive me insane.  Even when the cabinets are empty they squeak as the body twists and moves.
• Solar, with a large battery capacity.  I would like go for weeks without connecting to shore power and hopefully not have to run the generator.  Our current Winnebago has 500 watts of solar and 4x 6 volt batteries.  We can easily camp for weeks without starting the generator even when the weather is bad.
• Appliances that don't require 120Volts.  Once again i don't want to require shore power.  A propane fridge would be ideal, along with a propane oven and range, furnace, water heater, etc.
• At least 100 Gallons of water storage with a matching 100 Gallon Grey tank, maybe a smaller black tank.
• Storage for at least 80 lbs of propane, dual 40 lbs portable tanks or an automotive tank would be fine
• Has to sleep at least 5, 2 in a queen size or larger bed then bunks for the kids or maybe pull out beds from couches, etc.
• I would like an outdoor kitchen, maybe something that pulls out of the storage bins at the bottom
• I have to be able to tow a toad behind me (currently a Dodge Caravan)

I have been spending a lot of time looking at the local (and not so local) classifieds and there are a quite a few Prevost chassis (old passenger buses) for sale.  The closest to me is a 2000 PREVOST H3-41, they are asking 25K CAD for.  If i am willing to fly and drive back (2000KM) the bus unit i can pick up a 1999 Prevost H3-45 for the same price.  Both units have around 570,000Km on them which i believe is pretty low for a bus of this type and age.  My understanding is that the H3-41 unit's were only available in Canada and are 4' shorter then the H3-45.  They have one less bin under the chassis.  In addition to the buss i have been considering buying a written off 5th wheel for parts.  This would provide me with kitchen stove, furnace, water heater, fridge, and maybe some cabinets, etc that i can reuse.

I plan to buy a unit that it still setup as a passenger bus, remove the seats, flatten out the floor, modify the existing bathroom plumbing to suit, add new wiring as required, build the interior space.  I have the skills for all of that, i work on cars all the time and have built a kit car before, i have finished basements and helped build houses in the past and best of all I own all of the required tools.

Now to the questions i have:

• Has anyone had experience with both the H3-41 and H3-45.  Are there any differences between the units other then the 4' of length.  Would the 4' of additional length make the unit harder to get into cities/campgrounds?  What would you choose if you were me:-)?
• Is it common to setup these units to work without shore power?  Running mostly on Propane?  Where are propane tanks usually mounted, would i need to remove one of the storage bins underneath or find a way to vent it?
• What is the range of money usually spent on a DIY conversion.  I was hoping to pull this off for $120K or so, is this reasonable?  I don't need it to look like a luxury home, just livable :-) (My time is free)
• Do people with Prevost ever try to pull off the road and into random camping areas, how much of a problem is the ground clearance.  I understand that there are airbags that can increase the clearance, do all Prevost buses have airbags?  How high do they go?
• Many of the buses that i find have a wheel chair lift mounted to a separate door on the side of the bus, is it best to avoid these buses?  Do people just remove these lifts?
• What is the interior height of the H3-41 and H3-45?  are they the same?  I am 6'2" will the height be a problem?
• Ideally adding a slide or two would be great but i'm not sure it would be worth the cost/time.  Does anyone offer a kit for adding a slide that comes with the bearings, seals, hydraulics or motors, etc?  I realize this would require a lot of fabrication and welding.
• Many of the campgrounds i have been to in the USA have rules restricting units that are older then 10 years.  Do they try to enforce these rules for Prevost buses as well?  I understand there are update kits that replace the rear fiberglass and front fiberglass to make it look like the newer model, i guess this upgrade could be done, then you could just tell them its new..... is this 10 year old limit a problem?
• The existing bathroom on the bus must have a black tank, water tank, water pump, grey tank?  How much of that is usable when converting the unit over.  I would like to move the bathroom closer to the center of the bus, will this matter?

I have a lot more questions :-)  but i think that's a good place to start.

[luvrbus]

The H-41 were available in the US also I owned 1 they are good buses ,the over engineered air system can be a real PITA though.For 120k just buy a converted Prevost on the VIP motor home chassis with low miles and go unless you just like pain and misery .A 1994 VIP Prevost with the series 60 engine with low miles is a better choice than a worn out charter line bus with a million miles on it for sure   

[grifter]

By air system do you mean the air braking system or the Aircond system?

120K is the high end of what i would spend, if i can do it cheaper then great.  To be honest I do enjoy what you call Pain and Misery, powering through problems is most of the fun.  In the end i will know more about how the systems work then i ever would if i bought a completed one.

All of the charter buses i have looked at are under 360K Miles.  My understanding is that these chassis can get up into the millions of miles with proper maintenance, i don't see myself even doubling the mileage to 720K.  What is the average life of one of these chassis?  have people had problems with key parts wearing out under 500K miles?

There are a few completed Prevost motorhomes for sale in my area as well.   All of them need a lot of work and have a lot of outdated tech/style.  TBH if i saw the perfect unit at the perfect price i still might not buy it, converting it myself is what i am looking forward to the most! :-) 

[lostagain]

The air system in a bus controls the suspension, the brakes, and a lot of accessories. As Luvrbus says, Prevost cars are over engineered and complex, and overrated in my opinion. But a lot of people like them. They are a good bus since the 1990s. Prior to that, not so much. Do not limit your horizon to Prevost. MCI cars are really a good, basic bus that is easy to work on, with good factory support for 20 year old units or less. Lots of used parts too, because there are so many of them in the US and Canada.

Save yourself a lot of time and money, and buy an already converted bus that is close to what you want/need. They are 50 cents or less on the dollar. You will have lots to do to modify it anyway.

The ideal coach in my opinion is a diesel electric, no propane. That is one with a diesel boiler like a Webasto or ProHeat or the like to do all your heat requirements: engine pre heat, hot domestic water, cabin heat, etc. And a diesel generator in the 8 to 12 kw range to run everything when boondocking. The more batteries the better. And solar panels to take advantage of sunny days.

I am near Blackie about 3/4 hour from you. Private message me and I could show you mine, and talk about buses if you like. Although I am really busy now driving grain trucks.

JC

[buswarrior]

Beware the mileage claims on seated coaches.

How the blazes did the original owner pay for the coach, if they weren't running 80- 100k miles per year?

Miles on engine? Miles showing on the 3rd speedometer/odometer that's been in the dash?

Get a download from the engine computer. How long attached, how many miles...

At least you can confirm or deny what's gone on with the engine...

Prevost wallow on highway ramps. Only because they offer lucrative terms for the converters, and hence the market, do we end up thinking they are the height.

I'll take an MCI thank you. Line run and commuter work is a tough life, note who rules that market...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[lvmci]

Mileage and care are utmost, rust a close second, if you can find a factory conversion, it will be the best opportunity for the least amount of problems DD series 60 or newer if you can find it, speak to JC and take him with you to look at the coach, don't start with the $125K thought to purchase, lots of good conversions already done for sale, go to some bus rallys, drive as many as possible before committing, lvmci...

[grifter]

Thats a good point on checking to make sure mileage is real.  I will have to do some research on how to pull mileage from the ECU.  I doubt these buses support ODB2.  I bet i can find a local bus mechanic that could inspect the bus before i buy it.  Rust is a big problem here, i would never by a vehicle without getting under it and looking for rust. :-)

The two buses i was looking at are both Detroit Diesel series 60 with 6 speed Allison transmissions.  From what i have read that is a reliable setup.

Honestly i didn't expect the masses here to be so against converting a bus on my own.  Buying someone elses conversion or an old professional conversion doesn't really appeal to me.  I understand it may be cheaper, I understand it may be less work.  However the pride of ownership value wouldn't be there, at least for me. 

A little about me: When i came to the point in my life that i could have bought a high end sports car, i didn't, i bought all the parts to build one from scratch.  I didn't start with an old rusted body, I started from a roll cage and even though that project isnt quite finished yet, it still brings me pride to show my family and friends its progress. 

The more i think about it the more i don't think 41 feet is going to be enough unless it has slides.  I have watched several youtube videos where slide systems were added to a variety of types of RV's.  Used buses with slides in Canada seem to be $200K or more, and i would want to gut the complete unit anyway.  If i were to build my slides i would need a barn or large indoor warehouse to store the RV for the 6 months or more that it would take me to build the framework and get the bus exterior sealed again.  It would also take this project from a 1 year project to a potential 2 year project.  Maybe i should work on securing some space to work on the project next. 

Does anyone have any answers for my original questions?

[luvrbus]

As for slides the Prevost motor home shells were the only chassis designed for slides with a beam from front to the rear the passenger's carrying buses are not,you would need to buy a electric slide mechanism from some outfit like HappyJack because HWH will not sell you a hydraulic slide.You cannot tell for sure how many miles are on a bus by lifting the info from the ECU ,California is the place to buy a 2000 to 2002 bus they selling for under 10k to get them out of state from the CARB ruling and no rust either       

[grifter]

Interesting.  I just checked out https://happijac.com/2011-08-15-13-57-08.html  That unit looks perfect for the bedroom.  Mounted under the bed and bolted directly through the floor.

The beam in the floor of the RV model, that's interesting.  First i have head of that, but it does make sense that more reinforcement would be required.  Do you have any diagrams on the size of that beam or where that beam is located, does it run down the center of the bus or are there 2, one under each side of the bus to take the stress that the walls would normally pick up?

I found this photo online, this person had removed the skin to install slides.


I think steel would have to be added above the slide as well to stop the roof from sagging.  It should be possible to add the same beam that Prevost adds by removing the floor and bringing it in though the front windshield hole.

Still not sure on the whole side idea, I found a company online that says they will install slides in an Prevost chassis for $1400 a foot.  That company was in the USA so it doesn't do me any good but if they can do it then someone local can, or i can :-)

This might be the project that makes me move to an acreage and buy a barn :-)

[luvrbus]

Be thankful that the $1400.00 per ft is in the USA that way you don't deal with Sam Walker

[buswarrior]

Remember, the people who do things, don't have time for idle chit chat...

If a busnut isn't in the frame of mind to do another one, they will advise in that direction.

if doing the build is your passion, then absolutely get building!

You already know camping.

There are quite a few busnuts who launch into this and don't know how they are going to use the coach, because they don't know camping.

TONS of former busnuts move on to the next inspiring hobby, and we don't hear from them anymore.

Find LOTS of people who HATE SLIDES, and listen to their reasons. Real former owners, not repeaters. It is a large undertaking, and if those things are likely to come to pass, might be good to learn vicariously rather than first hand?

Make sure the ones who do LIKE THEIR SLIDES have enough experience and mileage with them that they just haven't learned yet... and aren't still trying to justify it all to themselves out loud...

And pick YOUR middle ground.

The only person who needs to be happy through it, and at the other end, is YOU. By extension, that also includes the long suffering ADMIRAL...

We have seen a number of home-built slides in various stages of completion swing past bus rallies... and don't see them again. Where did they go? Where did the coach go?

Nobody brags about it when stuff doesn't work out the way they hoped.

The available information is skewed, unfair representation, fake news, bad data...

The archives make for some fascinating reading, both here and at BNO, slides have been discussed at length back there somewhere in the last 20 years a few times.

Don't let us dampen your enthusiasm, we're all damaged goods...

Bus damaged?

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[chessie4905]

Very rare to see a picture of a slide run in to travel position in the rv and travel trailer industry. Good luck getting a dealer to run one in at an rv show.

[sledhead]

I built a slide in a 1990 m c i 102 c3 because of the extra roof support and because of the 3 " in extra height that the bus came with .

It was a lot of work and I built in 5 adjustment points in case I needed to adjust it but in the 10 years we used the coach I never needed to adjust it .

The biggest reason I built from a bus was because I wanted as much insulation as I could get and I wanted full floor heat ( I would not do floor heat again ) as it worked awesome when driving but it took to long to feel the heat when champing .

I had $ 110 k  in it when I sold it after 10 years and sold it fo $ 58 k

I would buy a already built unit and rip out and change what you want and make it the way you want . way way less money and time and the way I did it on the coach I have now is after I did the bulk of the redo I do a project each year between camping seasons .

The biggest reason I changed from the m c i was I wanted way way more power and this was the best way I could do it with out spending a ton of money

There a ton of 1998 - 2003 ( no emission crap ) units out there with very low mileage on them that need a gut job but everything is already there to reuse so you will save a ton of money and time . with all the changes I have made to mine I have less then $ 80 k invested now . The only thing that I do not like is the 45' length but then again it is only 3.5 ' longer then the m c i but WAY more power and a lot newer engine and transmission

All said I do miss the work involved on the build of the m c i but at the time I had a large garage that the m c i was built in and with help from some workers and friends it only took 1 year to build
I could not find any pics of the outside of the slide but it was 24" deep x 13' long 

hope this helps

dave     

[sledhead]

more pics

no workin ?

[lvmci]

Hi grifter, There is a prevost stripped down to the bones in Las Vegas. He also has a MCI 9, that he has had for a while. Done by an electrician a car hobbiest, comes with a great deal parts,I will p.m. you wheni find his name and phone, tom, lvmci...