Any ideas on why my Series 60 runs so hot?

[belfert]

I went to Detroit Dealer and my turbo part number is 23508405.

Any reason not to just but this Reliabilt one for $465 shipped from Ebay?  https://www.ebay.com/p/Detroit-Diesel-Turbo-Charger/1630060866

[chessie4905]

Before you drop the money for a rebuild, I would take it to a rebuilder and get his opinion on whether it has a problem.

[luvrbus]

I am not at the shop so  the  numbers   don't mean much anyways some 11,1 used a waste gate  that go bad and would not build  boost

[robertglines1]

Coming in late on this one.  Just checked (march)the waste gate actwaiter on a 2000 60 series 12.7  it was frozen about 20% open all the time.. It was a bad air actwaiter from air delivery side  was not moving flapper ar all.  It is important that you get GTA number to match your engine diff air ratio.  If yours is a H ar should be ar1.10   70MM intake.  I will talk to my friend about it. 

[bevans6]

from the picture that turbo doesn't have a waste gate?

[robertglines1]

when you turn one up= more heat. after about 1992 they had waste gate turbo

[RichardEntrekin]

I just saw this post, and I am not intentionally being a knucklehead.

Have you confirmed the temperature reading with a pyrometer? Sensors do go wonky.

Next step would be removing Tstats and putting them in heated water with a temp probe to confirm they are working.

Is there a way of testing the flow from the water pump?

We are all guilty of trying to find all the potential causes for our problems. But someone told me"when you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras". I am not saying that turbos or chip tuning isn't the cause of your overheating. The things I mentioned are just time, not money consumers, to verify.

Again, no smartaleckness intended.

[belfert]

The bus has run hot since long before I had the ECM reprogrammed.  It never goes below 190 once warmed up and is often at, or above, 195 degrees.  Radiator, thermostat, and water pump have all been replaced since I bought bus.  Last Fall the high temp alert in the ECM tripped several times.  It never got to the point of the ECM shutting down the engine.

The ECM upgrade going from 350 HP to 400 HP is an official Detroit upgrade done by a Detroit dealer.

I had a mechanical temperature gauge installed years ago in the engine compartment, but I realized it does no good since I can't read it when the front gauge is showing hot.  I could probably replace the temperature sensor quite easily.

The turbo might be going bad and have nothing to do with the heating.

[robertglines1]

Brian : first of all I hate ghost(hard to find problems)  Only other thing I can guess from afar air bubble in head toward flywheel rear of engine.  apparently when we change antifreeze the air doesn't get out of cooling passage due to design..

[thomasinnv]

Brian, if your radiator fan clutch is working as intended the ecm controls the fan engagement relative to coolant temperature. You will most likely never see it drop below 195 unless it's a very cool day, or coasting down a long hill. The ecm engages the fan clutch at about 202 and disengages around 195. (This is all adjustable via DDCT so the exact temperatures my vary slightly according to the ecm programming.)

My point is that your series 60 is designed and programmed to run between 195 and about 207 under normal conditions. If it doesn't drop under 195 that is not an indication of a problem. If memory is correct, the series 60 will start to defuel at 212.5, and begin shutdown sequence somewhere between 217 and 222. My memory is a little fuzzy on the last part. When did you experience the overheat warning? Were you pulling heavy up a grade?

Everything else aside, you still have a low boost problem which needs to be addressed. You are leaving power and fuel economy on the table, and you need to get it back under the pedal.

[belfert]

Busted Knuckle told me his Dina ran a lot cooler than 195.  I don't recall the exact numbers. 

I have an electric fan clutch.  It appears the fan clutch locks up as soon as the ignition switch turns on.  The fan freewheels when the ignition is off and as soon as I turn the rear ignition switch on I hear a click and the fan is locked solid.

I have Silverleaf VMSPC running on a small Netbook on my dash.  It will show somewhere around 215 to 217 degrees when the check engine light starts flashing.  The code is for high coolant temperature.  I know from experience that if it gets much higher the stop engine light will come on and the engine shuts down.  This started happening going through Wyoming on I-80.  Strangely, it stopped even while going through Utah and Nevada and didn't happen on the way home.

[joel_newton]

Hey Brian,  First time on Forum for quite some time.  Spotted this post just before leaving on vacation. Thought I would share similar concerns with my 1998 Dina with the 12.7 Series 60.  The temperatures Derrick points out are accurate for my coach.  Temp does not drop below around 195, fan engages about 202.  And, the typical operating range is 195 to 207.  However, when pulling long steep grades I have had the overtemp warning light come on.  The engine has never shut down.

I too have the Silverleaf VMSpc.  When I went to leave on vacation a couple of weeks ago I was going to monitor the temps when it "over heated"  as it always does on a hot, steep grade near the campground.  Fired up VMSpc and got an error message.  At that point I was already a few hours behind "schedule", issued a couple of quaint incantations and hit the road.  Sorry.

When I got my bus I found that the electric clutch had a screw through it so it no longer functioned.  I sent the clutch to the manufacturer to be rebuilt - $$$$$$.  It was literally sent to Germany for rebuilding.  I got tired of waiting.  Ripped out the hub and supporting frame.  Built a new frame and installed a new hub and pneumatic clutch.  Then, fixed the wiring so it functioned normally.  I included a manual over ride switch.  My experience in trucks was that in some traffic/road conditions the fan does not come on soon or often enough and the engines get hot. Seeing those conditions coming up I would turn on the fan and leave it on until conditions returned to normal.

I have a nice unused rebuilt electric clutch for sale!   12V

I was buying some parts from Werner Coach.  They ran a fleet of around 10 Dinas.  They also had overheating issues.  Their solution was to cut a vent into the engine hatch cover.  I did this and it didn't make any difference.  What kind of puzzled me is that with the hatch open and the fan engaged the wind almost blows you off your feet - at idle!  Close the hatch and there is almost no perceptible air blowing out the vent.
This over heating seems to affect numerous Dinas.  When I look around at diesel pushers - commercial buses or RVs, virtually all have major louvers/venting  across the back.  In the Dinas there is none.  You look around the air intake cabinet leading to the inter-cooler and radiator.  The muffler is underneath the uninsulated sheet metal floor.  The exhaust manifolds, turbo and exhaust pipe are right next to the uninsulated sheet metal wall.  Look at the engine compartment - even with an air dam there is not an efficient air flow. I think the intake air is being pre-heated and hot air around the engine is almost trapped.

My plan is to insulate the exhaust system and to replace the entire engine hatch cover with a totally louvered cover (at least for summers).  May also think about misters.

I reprogrammed the transmission to downshift normally rather than slamming into 4th when the jake is on and you take your foot off the throttle.  What a difference!  This thing is now a pleasure to drive!