Alcoa Aluminum Wheels - Let's talk about stud size!

daveola · March 12, 2019, 04:22:32 PM

I know the topic of aluminum wheels has come up many times, but I haven't found any clear answers on the board or talking to MCI about what studs are actually needed.

According to MCI the studs for steel are 3.75" (at least on the tag) and need to be 4" or 4 1/8" for aluminums. I have a list of part numbers I'll post below.

So I tracked down some Meritor R005922(LR) studs - they are 4" long and are a fit for Aluminum according to many sources. And it arrived at 4":

But when my mechanic pulled a stud off my bus:

It's the same size! 4"! And it won't fit the Aluminums. So what length do I need, and what are their part numbers??

daveola · March 12, 2019, 04:24:16 PM

Here's the part info I have.

MCI Part Number
---------------
Front: 15C-2-35, 15C-2-36 (updated to match Tag -> 15R-2-11/12)
Drive: 15J-3-18, 15J-3-5
??Or? 15J-3-35, 15J-3-38??
Tag: 15R-2-11, 15R-2-12 measurements: 3 3/4"
MCI: 800-323-1290
Aluminum parts: 15G-2-4 ~$22, 15G-2-5 ~$32 4 3/16" (another ref says 4 1/4")
**service bulletin 2676 mci**
steer: 15J-2-33/34 steel wheels + drums [[length: 4.13"]]
15L-2-21/15L-2-22 $14.76/$14.20 [[length 4" or 4.13???]]

Then some options I've found:

http://truckhub.us/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Euclid100DWheelAttachingPartsX-Ref.96161249.pdf
E-5922-L E-5922-R
1 1/8"-16 THD wheel end (1-3/4" long) (wheel end)
7/8"-14 THD hub end (1-3/16" long) (hub end)
Full length 4"
Meritor R005922-R R005922-L
(or Meritor 20X1241 or 20X1867 or Navistar 549807C1 or NWRA X-1948)
(Meritor 20X1242 or 20X1868 or

?? or NWRA X-1947)

?? BWP-NSI M-2444 & M-2449 ??
Not carried anymore, and $31/ea at Find-A-Part
Total length 3 5/8"
1 1/8"-16 THD wheel
7/8"-14 THD
.971 through .975 body diameter?
$12.60 each via BWP-NSI (but need to open account)

Meritor 20X1868 and 20X1867
Shown in PB-8857 catalog (revised 20 years ago)
LENGTH: 4.13"

??
wheel end 2.19" length to first thread .28" thread 1 1/8" thread, wheel thread length 1.91"??
(also Muncie 134880??)
New catalog (missing studs) http://hoovertruckcenters.com/assets/Meritor_brake_trailer_axle_and_wheel_attaching_parts.pdf
wheel is 2 3/16" (instead of 1 3/4"!!)
Need to get from Meritor WH in Florence, KY

sixtyseven · March 13, 2019, 08:55:32 PM

I was waiting for some MCI guys to answer...... so I will have to give you a Prevost answer (Prevost uses the same ones). As you found out the 4" studs are too short. The studs for the aluminum wheels are 4.6". Not sure what the deal is with these longer studs, for being so common they sure are hard to find ! I ended up getting mine from Prevost parts #610750 & #610749. Are you switching the drive axle wheels too? If so, you need to make ABSOLUTE SURE you get the correct inner nuts or catastrophic failure is in your future !

daveola · March 13, 2019, 09:26:29 PM

Why do the inner nuts need to be changed? Are you talking about the nuts on the inside of the hub/wheel?

sixtyseven · March 13, 2019, 10:41:27 PM

I'm talking about the inner lug nuts on the drive axle. They only need to be changed if you are removing steel wheels and replacing with aluminum wheels.

sixtyseven · March 13, 2019, 10:47:12 PM

To clarify, I am NOT talking about the 7/8 nuts that hold the studs to the hubs. I am talking about the inner lug nuts (3/4" inside thread & 1 1/8" outside thread) that bolt the inner duel wheels to the hubs

daveola · March 14, 2019, 01:49:31 AM

Ah - got it. I don't need to replace those if I'm running Steel on the inside, right?

bevans6 · March 14, 2019, 04:52:58 AM

As I understand it, if you are running Budd wheels and go to steel inner and aluminium outer, you leave the existing studs in place and use new longer inner budd cones (nuts) so that there is a longer thread length to accomodate the thicker aluminium wheels. The steel wheels match the existing studs, and the new longer Budd nuts match the thicker aluminium wheels.

Edit: almost certainly wrong, as comments below show. Leaving this here so those comments make sense.

luvrbus · March 14, 2019, 06:25:17 AM

The tag and steer take a 4-1/4 long stud I am in the process of changing the drive axle for inside aluminum wheels also and my drive are 4-3/4 long on a MCI DL3 and use the right nuts inner and outer on all axles they are not cheap for good studs I bought the studs from Luke for the steer axle and tag the drive axle from MCI .The nuts I bought from a Alcoa supplier in Ohio 60 nuts $4.38 each plus 20 inner nuts $ 5.10 ea all made in America .I am like Joe for common studs those guys keep the studs on the endangered list lol which they are everything is hub pilot now and the studs are cheap for those.Cost a lot of money to install something that you polish a the time

Jim Eh. · March 14, 2019, 08:37:14 AM

Quote from: bevans6 on March 14, 2019, 04:52:58 AM
As I understand it, if you are running Budd wheels and go to steel inner and aluminium outer, you leave the existing studs in place and use new longer inner budd cones (nuts) so that there is a longer thread length to accomodate the thicker aluminium wheels. The steel wheels match the existing studs, and the new longer Budd nuts match the thicker aluminium wheels.

I am pretty sure the stud must be of sufficient length to reach the outer cap nut. if the stud is too short then all the out cap nut is securing to is an empty inner nut. All the literature i have seen from Alcoa depicts the stud extending in the inner nut far enough to support the outer nut. Over the years I have seen plenty inner nuts break off and the stud is still below the break point.

luvrbus · March 14, 2019, 08:48:48 AM

Quote from: Jim Eh. on March 14, 2019, 08:37:14 AM
I am pretty sure the stud must be of sufficient length to reach the outer cap nut. if the stud is too short then all the out cap nut is securing to is an empty inner nut. All the literature i have seen from Alcoa depicts the stud extending in the inner nut far enough to support the outer nut. Over the years I have seen plenty inner nuts break off and the stud is still below the break point.

Same as Alcoa told me I have seen many inter nuts break the studs or nuts because not enough stud in the inner nut,just think about you have less than a 1/4 of material on the inner nut supporting the outside wheel so it needs studs long enough to fill the void IMO

sixtyseven · March 14, 2019, 11:36:28 AM

Daveola, You will sill have to replace them to go to aluminum outside wheels. Here are Euclid part numbers for drive axle inner nuts.

steel/steel = E-7895 (2 1/4 overall length)
steel/aluminum = E-7896 (2 9/16 OL)
= E-7997 (3 1/8 OL)
aluminum/aluminum (w/ stock studs) = E-5978 (3 3/32 OL)

daveola · March 14, 2019, 11:52:19 AM

Thanks Joe. I've actually got the Aluminums mounted on the outer drive now - but those are cheap enough that I might just change them out. I found E-7896, but not E-7997 - was that supposed to be E-7897?

And finally - where do I find the studs for the Steer/Tag?

That's what started this - I thought the Meritor R005922s would work, but they're too short. What's the part I need?

luvrbus · March 14, 2019, 12:31:10 PM

Quote from: daveola on March 14, 2019, 11:52:19 AM
Thanks Joe. I've actually got the Aluminums mounted on the outer drive now - but those are cheap enough that I might just change them out. I found E-7896, but not E-7997 - was that supposed to be E-7897?

And finally - where do I find the studs for the Steer/Tag?

That's what started this - I thought the Meritor R005922s would work, but they're too short. What's the part I need?

Call Luke I chased those for months with no luck

sixtyseven · March 14, 2019, 05:11:34 PM

Yes that was supposed to be E-7897. Like I said, the only place I could find the fronts and tag studs was Prevost, part # 610750 & 610749 - $12.50 each. You could try Luke first.
If you are using chrome caps on your lug nuts, E-7897 might be too long for your caps to go on. E-7896 would be better.