Right bus for slide-outs

[busnut_texas]

I know this is a subject that may stir the soot a little, but I am contemplating whether to put a slide-out in my conversion or not. As part of figuring out the initial cost and which bus is right for me I have read some articles and posts about slide-outs. With the research I have done there are a couple of things that have been said that I have questions about. The first thing that people have said, is absolutely do not put a slide-out in without the help of a structural engineer. I understand this to be because most buses get their strength from the walls (GMC, MCI, Prevost, Eagle). However, I have also run across a couple of posts talking about how transit buses (specifically Gillig) are built differently and derive most of their strength from the floor frame. As such, it seems to be believed that doing slide-outs on transit coaches is far less of a risk. So I wanted to ask, does anyone here have any experience with slide-outs/structural engineering on buses or know whether the things I have read are true?

Thanks in advance,
Jeremy

[TomC]

I know on transits, they usually have a small sub frame that helps-I've seen slide outs on both RTS and AMGeneral transits.  GMC's would be almost impossible because of the monocoque design and their curved roof would make for a short slide out.  Eagles are the easiest with their square tubing framing that is self supporting. I know MCI, Prevost, Blue Bird all now have factory slide outs.  My transit is 40ft x 102" wide x 82" high inside.  I don't miss or desire slide outs, and have been in enough small RV parks that don't allow them extended.  Plus, being inside them with the slide outs pulled in is just plainly weird.  Some sticks and staples now have full side slide outs.  The structuring on those units just plainly scares me.  Good Luck, TomC

[belfert]

Just a quick note here.  Gillig used to make RV chassis.  They had a full frame and didn't depend on the sidewalls for structural strength.  The house section is just a box on top of the frame.

You'll need to do some checking, but I would assume Gillig also uses a full frame on their transits.  Since Gillig's RV chassis could support slideouts, one could potentially assume the transit buses could also do so.  One issue could be the "box" on top of the frame that holds the passengers.  It may not have enough roof support to handle a hole cut for a slde.

I would recommend a structural engineer as already suggested.

[Jeremy]

I would certainly question the wisdom of putting a slide-out into a bus that doesn't have a separate chassis - but then, like TomC, I also grimace at what RV builders are able to 'get away with', in terms of slide out constructions, and the strutures of their bodies generally. My own approach has been to choose a coach that had both a separate chassis and particularly big windows - big windows meant that I could install reasonably large slide-outs (almost 2m long) in the side without having to remove any of the existing body pillars.

The other fundamental thing I decided to do was to not make the slides full height - instead the bottom of the slides are about 10" above the floor, which gives room in the wall to add extra steel beneath the slide-out opening without having to build the usual beam below floor level, which messes-up your baggage bays. The 10" step does of course mean you cannot walk into the slide-outs, but you still gain a very significant amount of floor space because most of your furniture and cabinets are now mounted in the slides and effectively outside the usual walls of the bus.

The height of 10" for the 'step' in my slides has been chosen because one of my slides will house a sofa, and another one a dinette - in both cases the step will be accomodated into the seat in such a way that a sitting person will have their lower legs and feet 'inside' the bus, whilst the rest of their body is 'outside' in the slide-out. A third slide will house the whole of the kitchen such that a person standing by the kitchen worktop will be 'inside' the bus, but the kitchen worktop and cabinets themselves will be 'outside' - but I'm hoping that none of this will be visually apparent - if I do it right it should all seem like one big space, and it shouldn't be obvious where exactly the edges of the slide-outs are.

Hope that all makes sense, but it probably doesn't

(Another) Jeremy

[busnut_texas]

Jeremy, what kind of bus do you have? Do you have any links to articles or details that helped you in your decision and design?

Thanks to all for the advise,
Jeremy

[Jeremy]

Hi Jeremy

Mine is a Bedford Plaxton Paramount - a British make I'm afraid, so perhaps not very relevant to you. There are various websites out there about people's slide-out projects; it's been a while since I looked for them, but I know there are several useful ones linked from http://users.cwnet.com/thall/links.htm.

In terms of the actual slide-out mechanism (another area which needs a lot of thought), two useful links are http://www.powergearus.com/ and http://www.hwhcorp.com/. The HWH one is especially good as they have videos showing the bare-bones of lots of different sorts of mechanisms.

Also, I spent a lot of time trawling through the various RV bulders' websites - a lot of them have 'factory tour' type sections where if you look closely you can spot pictures showing the engineering under some of their products

Jeremy

[Tom Y]

Jeremy in Texas, There probally have been slides put in every type of bus.  There is a Prevost near me that is getting 2  32 foot slides. When they are out it is HUGE. They also slide out more than most. I would get a pic and post but they made them sign a privacy sheet. If money is not an problem it can be done.  Tom Y

[kysteve]

Well, ill have to chime in here sometime and might as well be now.  Now these are only my opinions guys so please don't be throwing your empty beer bottles at me.

     Jerome, I'm just about done rebuilding the two outside walls of my 69 eagle with four new holes for slides in them.  I have a 13 feet and a 10 feet in the living area and one 8 and one 8 and a half feet in the bedroom area.  I too wanted to find a gmc transit for my buildout, but after many months of research and planning decided to go with the ole reliable (cut up-able) Eagle.  This after reading Dave Galeys book on slideouts about 7 or 8 times front to back.  It just didn't seem to make since to me, but after studying deskinned Eagles and other buses it finally did.  I wanted to do it once and do it one time as this will be the only bus of mine Ill be converting for myself (hope to roam the states lending a hand to others as we fulltime in 4 or 5 years).

     In my opinion a bus, be it a school bus or other twin rail frame bus, depends on the floor for the walls to sit on and then the "load" is transfered to the twin beams.  Now I'm not sure but I think if you "hang" all the weight on the side walls you would be putting a lot of strain on the joint at the floor to wall joint and then the same at the ceiling to wall joint.  Hence concentrating the weight in a specific area of the wall and transferring it straight down into the weekest part of the floor.  Now I haven't seen one of the transit buses deskinned and sitting next to a deskinned eagle (but I would love to) to do some real time, comparisons but if you can see that, I think you would get the bigger picture.  Also something to think about is if you "hang" the slideouts on the sides of the bus your center of gravity will go up conciderably. 

     On the other hand an Eagle is built all in box tubing with say "bridge girders" style consruction and each member depends on the other for support.  The bus frame allready has holes in it all the way down both sides.  You just have to make them square and bigger and still transfer the weight to the next member in the girder.   It really isn't difficult but just time consuming because of the mass of the project.  Going rate I last heard was 1,000.00 per lineal feet for the fabrication and installation of slideout rooms and Id say it is worth every darn penny of it.  Its a lot of work. If I had to choose all over again Eagle gets my vote 2nd time around.  I would say do it, just do your home work so you get to enjoy your bus when your finished and not be fighting leaks and miss aligned slideouts.

     I can offer nothing but support and interpretation of others like Dave Galey as I'm not an engineer, but  go for it. You will defiantly have one of a kind, and a nice one, when you get it completed.

     This is my blog if you want to see were I'm at on the project...  http://ourbusconversion.blogspot.com/      Its a little behind as I'm building the sliding frame for the first slideout now but It may help your decision some.

Hope this helps Steve in Ky

[busnut_texas]

Thanks to all who have responded. Your information was very helpful as always. Steve, I have already been looking at your blog and I look forward to seeing your progress on the slide outs.

Thanks,
Jeremy