CA wants diesels dead sadly

windtrader · February 06, 2019, 01:37:35 PM

https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemID=59&acctID=7500

Quote1989 Crown School Bus, Detroit 671T, 10-speed manual. Was a great running bus. Engine is not CARB compliant and we had to destroy the engine by putting a hole in the block.

richard5933 · February 06, 2019, 02:48:32 PM

First I've seen that one. My hunch is that some agency got a bit over anxious on this one and decided to kill the engine like that rather than deal with some paperwork to document an out of state sale. They've got to know that they've destroyed the value of the bus, more or less, depending on where the hole was put into the block.

Ok - now that I've seen the photos I'm going to guess the engine is a goner. Too bad, as many of these find good homes outside of CA.

DoubleEagle · February 06, 2019, 03:23:06 PM

Military surplus has done stuff like that for decades. They cut Vietnam era jeeps (M151A1) into four sections to prevent their use because of their flip-ability, even though they were okay for the military to use for some time. I have seen Detroit 2 cycle engines and transmissions beat with a sledge hammer to prevent use. Absolute mindless destruction of good and useful equipment. They even pushed good helicopters off ships into the ocean after they evacuated people from Vietnam.

Ed Hackenbruch · February 06, 2019, 04:04:43 PM

They pushed the choppers off so that they could get more people on board.

richard5933 · February 06, 2019, 04:48:56 PM

I need more information before being able to really make a judgement on this. The only data we have is what was in the listing. I'm sure that someone felt they had to destroy the engine, and I'm sure that they had some reason for doing so.

What I'm not sure about is if their reason was sound. Lots of buses are going for sale in CA for purchase and use in other states/countries. I highly doubt that the state has told owners of all buses to destroy them and/or remove their value totally. That would put the situation in one of a regulatory taking, and the owners of the vehicles would be entitled to compensation.

I'll try to find some more facts about this, but I don't know what I'll actually be able to find among all the chatter out there.

luvrbus · February 06, 2019, 06:02:28 PM

Engines in CA for non RV need to be CARB compliance, my friend at ACME in Stockton cuts holes in blocks up to the year of 2003 Cats,Cummins and Detroit if you replace a old 2 stroke it has to be a newer CARB compliance engine and the 2010 CARB engine or newer

richard5933 · February 06, 2019, 06:19:09 PM

From my initial look at the CA regs, the municipality had the choice to scrap or to retire. They chose to go the route of scrapping by destroying the engine. They could have done a VIN stop and then sold the vehicle in good working order to anyone outside of California. A little more paperwork, but the return could have been a higher sales price. Can't say what the reasoning was that this municipality went this route, but I'm guessing that it was easier for someone.

Rules for re-powering a vehicle with a newer engine are different and require the pulled engine to be handled according to specific rules. Destroying the block is an option when fulfilling these rules.

Perhaps the municipality in this situation confused the two?

Iceni John · February 06, 2019, 06:36:34 PM

If a CA school district gets a grant to replace a bus, the old bus must be destroyed, no exceptions. This is CARB's ruling. The only buses that escape the crusher are those not being replaced or not owned by school districts. This is yet another example of government bureaucracy gone mad. CARB is not elected, and there are precious few checks and balances to what they do. So much for democracy.

Crowns are capable of many decades of good service, so to destroy one instead of repowering it makes no sense at all. The horrid crappy disposabuses that replace them are made to last only a decade or so before they self-destruct, then another has to bought to replace it in an endless cycle of planned obsolescence and squandering of resources. Crowns had a 20-year warranty - what other bus these days is even close to that?

John

dtcerrato · February 06, 2019, 07:09:14 PM

Our GMC is 66 years young & running strong!

luvrbus · February 07, 2019, 07:51:08 AM

I love my 2 strokes but they have always been a nasty engine for emissions even when not blowing smoke they are still nasty if it wasn't for the emission they would still be around.Texas is getting as bad as CA they are replacing the Detroits in boats and generators,Az is the same all the mines here are replacing the 2 strokes.they are gone in the military too it's sad but the 79 year old engine is dying at a fast rate now

windtrader · February 07, 2019, 11:19:17 AM

Quote from: luvrbus on February 07, 2019, 07:51:08 AM
Texas is getting as bad as CA they are replacing the Detroits in boats and generators,Az is the same all the mines here are replacing the 2 strokes.they are gone in the military too it's sad but the 79 year old engine is dying at a fast rate now

Second sadly.

Reality is these old 2 stroke diesel buses are antiques and nearly any fix is no longer a repair but a restoration project. Efforts and frustration obtaining parts and service only increase as the fleet of operating old diesels shrinks. Adding to the demise is the liquidation of those few remaining caches of old bus parts like that yard in OK.

Jim Blackwood · February 07, 2019, 02:18:56 PM

Yeah you can expect to start having problems when the newest ones are approaching 25 years old and therefore fairly called antique engines. There is a period there where they become more valuable as scrap before scarcity begins to bring the value back up. But then the cost can also go up when that happens. Hard to win at this game.

Jim

Dave5Cs · February 07, 2019, 02:47:03 PM

Sounds like you guys are trying to get rid of the sport. Why not be positive and enjoy what you have. Why did we get into doing a conversion, To enjoy it and drive around in our country, meet people and have some fun. If those are not why you have one I would suggest you sell it and do something else.

Be careful what you wish for. Some here just keep bringing up what California CARB says and 2 strokes. I live here and can't care less what they say. I know for a fact that the CARB rules do not apply to our Conversions so it doesn't matter.
Someday it might but that day is not here yet so just flippin enjoy it.

luvrbus · February 07, 2019, 03:56:09 PM

I hear CARB is working on limiting the miles driven for RV's with 2 strokes like antique vehicle's but one never knows with CARB lol Ralph Nader and CARB not much difference in the 2

dtcerrato · February 07, 2019, 05:56:55 PM

DITTO on what Dave said & we don't even live there! Kudos to you Dave for laying it out point blank. Too much dissection. That's what happens when the bus sits & the owner mulls over it. Getting at the wheel & doing what it was designed to do will not only help the bus but its owner too! Don't ask us how we know that but we'll give you a hint - we're headed back to Alaska this spring...

Reach into your bucket list AND DO IT! Rant over...