MCI 102c3 Windows Keep or Not Keep

Jcparmley · November 16, 2018, 05:16:47 PM

My plan was to keep my windows because they look to be double pane. However, I took a pic of the window stamp and looked it up on the web. It turns out to be

Guardian Saftey Float High Density Lamanited

So it's two pieces of glass with a plastic material in between. My question is in regards to the thermal transfer. Is this glass any better (insulation wise) than the single pane? Does MCI even make true dual pane side glass? I can't afford the expensive RV glass. At least not now. Your advice is very much appreciated.

lostagain · November 16, 2018, 07:18:15 PM

Many buses have dual pane windows. They are great at insulating against cold or heat. They are heavy. And in time the seals leak and they get foggy. Some glass shops can fix them. If all you have is single pane glass, you can use good insulating blinds that will keep you confy when pulled down.

JC

Fred Mc · November 16, 2018, 07:42:01 PM

Test

Jcparmley · November 17, 2018, 05:40:16 AM

So is the laminated glass the dual pane?

lostagain · November 17, 2018, 07:11:55 AM

No. I think laminated glass is two panes together with a sheet of some kind of plastic in between, with no air space, like a windshield. Dual pane is two panes separated by an air space. The air space is actually filled with an inert gas such as argon. They are sealed around the perimeter. It is that seal that when it fails lets humid air get in and the window becomes foggy. Double pane side glass is very common on buses of all makes as an option. Call MCI. They probably have them.

JC

edvanland · November 17, 2018, 07:39:32 AM

Like a windshield that is so if it breaks then it doesn't leave sharp glass just a lot of crumbs. My thinking because when I had to have a side window done on my MCI7 the glass shop said it had to be DOT approved.

Oonrahnjay · November 17, 2018, 08:06:57 AM

Quote from: edvanland on November 17, 2018, 07:39:32 AMLike a windshield that is so if it breaks then it doesn't leave sharp glass just a lot of crumbs. My thinking because when I had to have a side window done on my MCI7 the glass shop said it had to be DOT approved.

Yeah, and "DOT" marked. The DOT standard references (I think) an ASTM/American Society for Testing and Materials document, which has categories for types of glass, with requirements for light transmission, visual distortion, and characteristics for size and sharpness of fragments of "crumbs" of tempered glass, etc. It's sort of a pain ITA but its a very useful and technically accurate standard for the performance of vehicle glass.

Jcparmley · November 17, 2018, 08:10:11 AM

Do you think the laminated glass is better insulation than single pane?

Quote from: lostagain on November 17, 2018, 07:11:55 AM
No. I think laminated glass is two panes together with a sheet of some kind of plastic in between, with no air space, like a windshield. Dual pane is two panes separated by an air space. The air space is actually filled with an inert gas such as argon. They are sealed around the perimeter. It is that seal that when it fails lets humid air get in and the window becomes foggy. Double pane side glass is very common on buses of all makes as an option. Call MCI. They probably have them.

JC

Jcparmley · November 17, 2018, 08:14:58 AM

Do you think the laminated glass is better insulation than single pane?

Quote from: lostagain on November 17, 2018, 07:11:55 AM
No. I think laminated glass is two panes together with a sheet of some kind of plastic in between, with no air space, like a windshield. Dual pane is two panes separated by an air space. The air space is actually filled with an inert gas such as argon. They are sealed around the perimeter. It is that seal that when it fails lets humid air get in and the window becomes foggy. Double pane side glass is very common on buses of all makes as an option. Call MCI. They probably have them.

JC

lostagain · November 17, 2018, 08:22:20 AM

Either of them has next to zero insulating factor, since there is no air space between two panes to stop the heat (or cold) transfer. If you want good insulation, get double pane glass, or good insulating blinds you can pull down when it's cold or hot out.

JC

buswarrior · November 17, 2018, 08:24:37 AM

Don't worry about windows you already own.

Obsessing over insulation/single/double pane in a camper?

To what end?

How bad is the stock set-up vs what you could reasonable accomplish, at what cost in time and materials, and greater risk of project abandonment as the time and funds get dragged out?

Campers are for going to SEE the world... windows already installed and owned, nothing to do, no costs to incur.

In what extremes are you planning to take the coach?

If Alaska in winter and the deserts of Arizona in summer...

All this obsession for maybe 5000 btu difference? One electric heater and half a roof top AC worth of HVAC?

Great for gazing at one's belly button on the internet, working in a vacuum, but... the stock coach already does a free insulating job for you with no further input.

So, all this over a $20 electric heater at the big box store, and half a $600 roof air at the camping store...

Thermal inertia is the bigger camper problem, too many peeps don't put enough HVAC to pull down or pull up, a sitting coach that is hot or cold soaked.

Get the coach to the right temp, it is easier, HVAC speaking, to keep it there, than drag it there.

Too many busnuts don't put enough HVAC BTU, and expect insulation to save them.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

lvmci · November 17, 2018, 09:30:18 AM

Hi Jcp, the MCI Greyhound design uses the same frames for double pane & single one windows, just the rubber gasket changes, thicker for the single, thinner for the double, but they're both the same width to fit in the same groove. You can split a broken double pane change the rubber gasket to a single and move on. I kept mine, I have one side of a double cracked right now and saved a single, so plan on replacing the one side for a double again. I not sure there was argon glass, as JC suggested as they twist so much and leak out or let water in, but it might be, non the less, double pane does reduce heat transfer, even if sandwiched together at home, lvmci...

buswarrior · November 17, 2018, 10:05:04 AM

Somewhat related...

Keep the pressure washer FAR AWAY from your aging double pane windows...

Self inflicted wound, driving moisture into the dead seals.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

Jim Blackwood · November 17, 2018, 02:34:32 PM

For about $30 you can buy a disposable cylinder of argon. Black gasket maker RTV or Right Stuff sealant and you can maybe home remedy your leaky dual pane windows if you take your time and are particular about it.

Jim

sledhead · November 18, 2018, 05:59:25 AM

other then frost or fogging there is not much different in R value in windows
Hard Coat Low-E insulated glass with argon 2.75 r value that's it

so insulate the coach roof walls and floor and as said have TONS of heat and a/c

dave