The Price of Converion Bus

[DoubleEagle]

      I have a British bus.  You can HEAR the engine going down the road?  How about that?

Well yes, I can hear it just fine in the background. If I need a stronger dose, I open the driver's window. I love going through a downtown area with buildings on both sides, the reverb effect adds to the music. I would really like to have a rooftop camera and a microphone if I ever get rooftop exhaust stacks on. I should put the video on all the TV's in the coach so that the grandkids can appreciate it (or not). I was under the impression that some diesel music in a British Bus leaked through to the driver. 

[Geoff]

Loud exhaust from a bus is detrimental to the folks you pass.  Quiet is the key to a nice conversion.

[DoubleEagle]

Loud exhaust from a bus is detrimental to the folks you pass.  Quiet is the key to a nice conversion.

Oh, it's not overly loud. it's beautiful music! The Jacob Brake, however, is a tad bit warmer.

[chessie4905]

Our 4104 sounded beautiful going through tunnels. A few shots with the air horns were nice too. Only did the horns if no vehicles were near.☺

[eagle19952]

by somebody who can't read the Constitution because they can't read cursive letters or somebody who speaks English as a second language.
TOM

Ha !! Now you know the real reason for zip codes.
The smart immigrants were put on the last 3 digit sort line.

[ABart]

Great discussion.   How do you decide what a conversion is worth?  With real estate, you can look at comps and sales prices. For cars, you have KBB, NADA, and others. 

I cannot get my head around how to determine the value of something like a mid to late 1990s professionally converted XL with a series 60. Listing prices are all over the road. 

[richard5933]

My first thought is the obvious one... A conversion is worthwhile what someone is willing to pay for it. We paid more for ours than some would have recommended, but the features and condition was worth it to us. We wanted an old bus in great condition, and that's what we got.

The other answer, is that's what appraisal services are for. Just because our bus was worth something to us didn't mean that the insurance company would agree should we file a claim. So we paid Spike to do a professional appraisal after the upgrades we wanted were done. He used a combination of comps, market trends, recent sales, etc to set a value. Actually came in above our purchase price. (Even after getting dinged for the 4-speed).

[Jon]

Appraisals are a part of ownership unless we are willing to allow an insurance company to decide the value of the coach. An under insured coach will end up being "totaled" because it will not take much damage to end up with repairs that cost more than the insurance company values the coach at.

We always suggest "agreed value" policies instead of ACV because with the agreed value both the owner and the insurace company are aware of and in agreement on how much insurance coverage there is.

That being said I know appraisals almost always exceed the true market value and often never reflect what a coach is really worth to the marketplace. The marketplace tends to be brutal and unwilling to pay anywhere near what an owner may think a coach is worth, and almost never does market value reflect replacement cost. It is actually sad seeing an owner spend thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars converting a coach and restoring it to very good mechanical condition, only to find he cannot get 25% of what he has invested in dollars, much less the value of his time.

[luvrbus]

Buyers are becoming more savvy by the way of the internet,new conversions were so overinflated they never sold for the list prices you see advertised anyways.New Presovst conversion will list for 1 mil to almost 3 mil,they all say it takes 4000 man hours to convert a bus,they pay the same amount for shell from Prevost around 600k.No way they can spend a mil or 2 on converting a shell.Dealers will use the list price of the conversion when new and try to make you think it is a deal,individuals selling are more realistic.My doctor has a new Prevost the list price of the paint job from the converter on his sheet was $131.000.00 no way the bus comes with with a base color and they add all the graphics.People like my doctor will buy new and take the 1000 bucks a day deprecation write off and when there is none left they sell it off.Plus you are looking at 20+ year old bus that has no lending value to lenders so it has to be cash in hand,then the market is flooded that is why they are all over the map in price,no way would I try and convert a bus in today's market.I am doing a remodel I should have went a bought a different bus and been money ahead 
     

[Fred Mc]

Riding lawnmowers aren?t necessarily cheap either. When my son started racing go carts the joke was you needed about 50000 to do it. A thousand for the go cart and 49000 for the motorhome to go to races.

[eagle19952]

Agreed Value is also a joke.
You buy a coach for X
3-10 years later you have a wreck.
The insurance company decides the rate of depreciation.
You lose.
Further, they don't drop your rate/premium accordingly for that period.

[Jon]

Agreed Value is also a joke.
You buy a coach for X
3-10 years later you have a wreck.
The insurance company decides the rate of depreciation.
You lose.
Further, they don't drop your rate/premium accordingly for that period.

Which is exactly why as an owner you have to look out for your interests because the insurance company will not. An updated appraisal after every 2 or three years plus a detailed list of capital improvements made since the last appraisal go a long way to preventing the insurance company from bending you over.

[eagle19952]

Which is exactly why as an owner you have to look out for your interests because the insurance company will not. An updated appraisal after every 2 or three years plus a detailed list of capital improvements made since the last appraisal go a long way to preventing the insurance company from bending you over.

none of which maintains original purchase agreed value.

[luvrbus]

none of which maintains original purchase agreed value.

I am told by a adjuster that works for insurance co a lot of people use for their insurance here,a appraisal for insurance is like one for a lending institution it's only good for 6 months then if you have a claim he decides not the appraisal used to secure the insurance. He appraised one here at the shop they get down to the nity grity he measured the tire tread,brake shoe thickness and miles on the engine,running condition and etc.The owner thought for sure he was going to get his 100k that didn't work they paid him 13k and he kept the bus another mistake he thought he could sell easy for 25k  he ended up selling it for 2k after a year and a 1/2 later for less money than he paid the insurance co for the bus     

[richard5933]

I think that we all agree anything to do with insurance or valuation is nothing more than a crap shoot. We each will do what we feel necessary to support the value we think is appropriate and hope/pray that we never need to use our insurance. When we do, we hope/pray/fight like hell to get the insurance adjuster to assign a value to our coach that we feel is fair.

When we had our wreck last fall we fought like hell with Progressive, and in the end they actually came through with a valuation that we could live with. It wasn't necessarily as high as we wanted, but it was actually higher than Spike said he would be able to support if he did an official appraisal. I think that the dash cam went a long way in that it showed what happened and got the other driver's carrier to accept full liability almost immediately. Perhaps a dash cam should be considered as important as a current appraisal?

We're planning to continue putting money into our coach as long as we're getting enjoyment from it. As soon as the money exceeds the enjoyment it will be time to consider other options or approaches to the whole bus thing.