Bus crash in Saskatchewan

[Slug]

How many times do you see people failing to stop at the sign, cars, motor bikes, push bikes,  RV, trucks, taxis etc people walking against the don't walk
It's simple STOP means STOP and the reason is its a dangerous intersection what
don't people understand about a 4 letter self explanatory word maybe for the idiots they should add LOOK or DIE With a $1000.00 fine
What price do you put on a tragedy like this
There are accidents and then there is Murder
I feel for all the family's or those that were on the bus and the people who have to clean up the aftermath after these events, not a job I would like to live with the trauma on a daily occorance

[buswarrior]

Ontario recently started mandatory big truck training.

MELT

https://www.ontario.ca/page/new-mandatory-training-class-drivers-licence-applicants

The trucking associations support it being country wide.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[lyndon]

Ontario recently started mandatory big truck training.

MELT

https://www.ontario.ca/page/new-mandatory-training-class-drivers-licence-applicants

The trucking associations support it being country wide.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

This is a good thing and I hope it spreads to the other provinces. When I started out in the '70s, I got my class 1 through a community college. The old timers teased me about being a "text book trucker" but I found work with a safety conscience national carrier that had a great  training program. No one without significant road experience -- plus check trips with supervisors -- would ever be turned loose running single.

In Alberta, many new drivers go to a training school just to get their Class 1 and air brake certificates but it is not required. As long as you can pass the medical, written and road tests, plus the air brake practical test, you are reclassified. Same as the '70s. And although there are plenty of very professional, experienced and safe drivers out there -- probably most -- I think there seems to be all too many these days that are a disaster waiting to happen.

As it relates to the current thread, I was reading that the truck owner stated his driver had 2 weeks training and 2 weeks experience. That loaded B-train had to be somewhere close to 120,000 lbs. Scary and tragic.

[Slug]

We have to have held a car licence first then sit a driving/question test for a rigged licence of the class you need light, medium, heavy class than have to have a driving history for a set time to then get a HC heavy combination (truck trailer) then again another driving history for that truck for a set time to up the class to a B Double and then a set time to road trains 3+ 40ft trailers on out back roads including gravel track/roads all the time on all truck licences filling in a goverment driving log book with 0 blood alcohol with random tests for drugs and each axel wight checks, roadworthy tests some are fixed centres and others are mobile setups
We have to deal with state police, state heavy transport officers and federal group regulation operations
$1800.00 for a log book infringement and it has to be with you at all times and upto date from your last stop
We are regulated in the hevey licence class in Australia including yearly roadworthy/safety checks even for MH

[belfert]

Governments are damned if they do, and damned if they don't when it comes to releasing data on major accident investigations.  Maybe they release information on day one of the investigation that the truck driver is 100% at fault.  What happens when six months later they find the truck driver was not at fault?  There are reasons government agencies don't like to release information until all the data is in.  I know that in today's instant news world everyone wants answers in minutes, not days or weeks.

Government agencies released all kinds of information in the early days after 9/11 that was simply incorrect.  The reported death toll in the first day or two was about twice what the final death toll was.  They would have been better saying they don't know instead of guessing at things.

[bobofthenorth]

You're right Brian - sometimes we just need to be patient.

However sometimes the truth is so self evident that only a bureaucrat could take over a month to recognize it. 

Time will tell which is the case but I'll put money on it if anyone is interested.

[bigred]

You know ,I find it interesting that no one has mentioned Equipment failure as a possible cause.If I was a betting man ,I would say that is why the authority's are slow to furnish info on this mishap .I will bet they are going through this wreckage with a magnifying glass Normally with brakes on all the wheels working these trucks will stop well ,but as any of us bus owners or anyone that has been around trucks will testify ,any part on these things are subject to fail at a moments notice.I do know from past experience that the tractors are looked after a lot better than the trailers are .

[eagle19952]

You know ,I find it interesting that no one has mentioned Equipment failure as a possible cause.If I was a betting man ,I would say that is why the authority's are slow to furnish info on this mishap .I will bet they are going through this wreckage with a magnifying glass Normally with brakes on all the wheels working these trucks will stop well ,but as any of us bus owners or anyone that has been around trucks will testify ,any part on these things are subject to fail at a moments notice.I do know from past experience that the tractors are looked after a lot better than the trailers are .

or...excessive speed aka contributory negligence.
my nickle says the insurance industry is thick in this.

[DoubleEagle]

or...excessive speed aka contributory negligence.
my nickle says the insurance industry is thick in this.

No doubt the insurer for the trucker is sweating the details, but I fail to see how they will get out of the tremendous liability they have. The driver should be worried about possible criminal charges if he blew the stop sign without slowing down at all.

[eagle19952]

No doubt the insurer for the trucker is sweating the details, but I fail to see how they will get out of the tremendous liability they have. The driver should be worried about possible criminal charges if he blew the stop sign without slowing down at all.

agreed.
imo. they both/all are.

back in the 60's if you played sports your parents were obligated to carry an insurance policy in the event of injury/incident too.

[kyle4501]

The excuse that the trees were blocking the line of sight is a BS distraction from the real cause.

If the trees are found at fault, then it follows that ANYTHING that blocks the line of sight at any intersection must be removed - not practical, realistic, or productive. I mean, really? They didn't grow overnight !!! 

Sure. blaming the trees is easy & allows everyone to avoid personal responsibility, but does not address the real problem.
Which is - Driver inattention. 

Obnoxious speed bumps will abuse everyone & their equipment - and punish the good drivers.
If a flashing red light AND a STOP sign wasn't enough, then maybe rumble strips would be a more tactile reminder to inattentive drivers of an impending stop sign.

From what I've read about this, it is obvious to me that the truck ran the stop sign, and the bus is obviously the unfortunate victim.

What we don't know is why the truck ran the stop sign.
As for the truck driver/ trucking company, I'm sure the temptation to blame equipment failure ( or anything else beyond their control ) would be overpowering. I can't imagine the mental burden of having everyone know it was a direct result of my actions that caused so much suffering & loss.

[buswarrior]

Collision investigation is a separate step from assigning blame. All of the contributing factors need to be considered. This isn't the wild west, Judge Dredd is a movie...

It will be reported that the tree line is an important factor to answering why the bus driver wasn't successful in attempts to miss the truck. We have all had a vehicle come out in front of us, but we saw it coming in time.

The trucking company insurer is likely to just write the cheque for the value of their policy and walk away. What else is there for them to do? How was a 2 truck operation able to afford to insure a new driver, if indeed, it turns out that he was? I've only seen reports that he was in the employ of that company for about a month, nothing more about the truck driver than that?

How much liability insurance do each of us carry? If it was a busnut that came out in front of the hockey team...

oh dear...
buswarrior

[Jim Eh.]

Anyone familiar with that intersection enough to know if the usual Saskatchewan oncoming stop sign rumble strips are present?

From what I understand, the investigation is pretty far reaching. It will encompass more than just the people directly involved in the accident.  Most all facets of the transport industry may come under scrutiny. You can be sure the authorities are being very careful and thorough on such a high profile case as this one. They have already made one blunder. It won't be over in a week of two.

[kyle4501]

. . . . All of the contributing factors need to be considered. . . . .
It will be reported that the tree line is an important factor to answering why the bus driver wasn't successful in attempts to miss the truck. We have all had a vehicle come out in front of us, but we saw it coming in time.
. . . .
buswarrior

Trying to avoid a collision isn't always free of negative consequences - once you leave your lane, you may be liable for any & all damages. . . . .

Proper priorities need to be placed on all contributing factors. I am not a fan of sensationalizing subordinate elements. To do so creates more bureaucratic red tape that often interferes with more effective solutions.

While trees can be cut down to provide line of sight - however if this is required, where will that lead? Removing hill sides? Removing buildings/ houses? Closing roads due to blind intersections? Crazier things have happened. . . . All in an effort to eliminate personal responsibility.

Hopefully the investigation will provide good information that will lead to improvements so all of the loss & suffering will not be in vain.

[belfert]

I fail to see how any fault could be laid on the bus driver.  The bus had the right of way.

I had a crazy driver pull over on the shoulder of a two lane highway once and then decide to make a U turn from the shoulder right in front of me.  I was lucky there was a road there and I made a left hand turn at 55 MPH to avoid plowing into the SUV.  It was good fortune I was driving a small hatchback that day.  (Also owned a pickup at the time.)  If I had been driving my bus there would have been a crash as there is no way I could make that turn in my bus.