How to get under Bus without air?

[Scott & Heather]

So we are needing to move our coach by Thursday from where we are in Warren, IN to Ann Arbor, MI. I just started her up today (first thaw we've had since before Christmas) after she's sat since before Christmas through some cold snaps down to -15°F. Now she won't build air. It's leaking majorly out of somewhere in between the rear duals. I don't have leveling valves anymore I'm completely manual on leveling so it's not that. Some line somewhere there is leaking maybe because moisture froze and burst it, I have no idea. Problem is that I can't squeeze under there to find and repair the leak. Coach is on leveling blocks stacked underneath the only two jack points I have back there. So I can't even stick a jack under there to lift the coach...

Up a crick.... and I really do need to get this coach moved. If you have any brilliant ideas, I'd be so grateful.


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[lostagain]

Can you dig a hole in the ground? Can you send your child under there? Can you wedge some wood under the tire? Is there not some other place to jack up even just to get started? Tow truck companies have inflatable bags that would be easier on the bus.

JC

[Fred Mc]

I had a similar problem last winter when I parked the bus in snow and when it settled it broke the drain valve on an air tank. With a long stick I was able to "jam " the valve so the air loss was not total and air up the suspension.

Good luck

[Scott & Heather]

Yeah the loss right now is preventing any air buildup. Question, if I have an ice obstruction in the line somewhere or the air dryer is froze shut, where does the compressor unload the air? At the compressor or does it have a line that unloads it somewhere between the duals? I'm trying to figure out what the problem is exactly. Coach is parked on concrete. No digging.


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[lostagain]

Scott, the child under the bus was sort of a joke... Although in a pinch...

The compressor doesn't unload really, valves in the head open, and it runs without making air, until the governor asks for air again. You should be able to reach the compressor to see if it makes air. Just open the "drain daily" valve at the ping tank while running. The air dryer lets air out to purge the filter in it. Maybe that is stuck open? Is the air dryer at the rear near the drive axle? It usually is near the front axle though.

JC

[Iceni John]

Would a low-height bottle jack fit?   I keep a 12-ton low-height jack in the bus because if a front tire were completely flat a regular-height jack would not fit under the front axle.

From the Tu-Flo 700 manual:
"When air pressure in the reservoir reaches the cut-out setting of the governor, the governor allows air to pass from the reservoir into the cavity beneath the unloader pistons. This lifts the unloader pistons and plungers. The plungers move up and hold the inlet valves off their seats.  With the inlet valves held off their seats by the unloader pistons and plungers, air is pumped back and forth between the two cylinders. When air is used from the reservoir and the pressure drops to the cut-in setting of the governor, the governor closes and exhausts the air from beneath the unloader pistons. The unloader saddle spring forces the saddle, pistons and plungers down and the inlet valves return to their seats. Compression is then resumed."

John

[j.m.jackson]

Do you have access to the manual valves that control the airbags, or are the up underneath and inaccessible? If you can reach them, plumb in a schrader valve there with a cut off on the supply and apply air there.

[lvmci]

After a long layover my C3 would leak out as it was filling up,  Gary from B&B told me to let the engine warm up a little then race the engine, the valve closed at the high RPM and started to fill, ending the leak, lvmci...

[Runcutter]

Scott, is there a chance an ice buildup is holding a valve (leveling valve?) open?  If so, would applying a kerosene salamander heater to the area be worth a shot? 

Arthur

[Templar52]

Try to reach the leaking valve with a small propane torch. Ask someone to play with the valve inside. The problem could comming from else were also. Maybe a torn airbag. With a jack you should be able to lift the body from the rear. There is plenty of spaces to lift it up just a little.
Even from the engine cradle,just taking some spaces to crowl under. Do not lift to mutch.
If a airbag is faulty,just lifting a little will be suffisant for him to reseal himself on the bottom.

[j.m.jackson]

It looks like he's saying that it won't build air in the system at all, but the compressor is pumping, and that there is a audible leak between the main and tag. He's needing to get air to the bags so he can get under there and investigate further. Looks like he's parked on concrete (oh, how nice that would be). Any access to the suspension air tank to try and fill that manually? I've got male air QC fittings on my drains for that purpose...

[ol713]

   Hi;
Just a thought.  You should be able to remove the wheel on the tag axel.
That would allow access to maybe find your leak. You will need shop air to
find the leak.
Also with the tag wheel removed, you might be able to jack the duels  enough
to remove the blocks. That is a lot of work, but it is doable.
                                          Good luck,   Merle

[bobofthenorth]

Can you get alcohol into the lines?  It could just be a relay froze open and dumping the air.

[Scott & Heather]

All of this is great info! Thank you so much for all of your ideas. I am going to use my jack to try to lift up a different point on the coach back there it looks like I might have another Jack point. If I can get it higher Knouff I can remove the leveling blocks, and stick another jack under the actual Jack point. Once I have that done then I'm saved. So they leak in deed is between the drive axles. I did attempt to raise the engine I can only build about 30 psi it just keeps leaking out. The temperature today is 35°F, so I don't think anything should still be frozen. It was above freezing yesterday as well. And all last night. Once I get under there I can report back what I find wish me luck I'm still getting over a really nasty viral illness I just struggling with this past weekend.


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[neoneddy]

While I'm a noob here, I think Bob of the North is onto the right track.

I fired my bus up today as well in MN here, same situation as you, but I can wait until the thaw.

If air is leaking out and you can hear it (it is with mine, mine is up front under the front wheels), that means air is flowing.    Air can bring a deicer do wherever the leak is as well naturally.    Could use something as simple as alcohol and 30% water by volume.  Get some brakeline antifreeze https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/chemicals---fluids-16461/brakes-16516/air-brake-antifreeze-19422    I had some  seafoam in the garage here, it said deicer on it, so I poured a little into the fill port on the rear passenger side compartment.  I figured it couldn't hurt, first time I opened that port after buying the bus a mess of oil and water spewed out.

After running the home air compressor I noticed something dripping out of the front center under the bus... hoping it's either seafoam, water or both.  Looks a bit oily so I'm guessing seafoam, but it should melt some as it warms up today.  38f as I type this.