Freezing Temps

Branderson · December 18, 2017, 01:48:37 PM

I took the bus out for the weekend and usually every trip, I'm learning something new. This time it was dealing with freezing temps. We rolled in and I set up everything. If I would have thought about it, I would have kept the water unhooked until the next day. Well, I woke up and no water. I looked at the temp and immediately got worried that the freezing would have broken something.

It warmed up a bit and I had running water within a few hrs. My question is did I get lucky? Do I need to be more aware of when it gets to below freezing weather? I guess I assumed that my 74 MCI was built to handle that but I don't want to stupidly assume something like that.

Does anyone have any lessons learned when it comes to freezing weather?

I also learned more about my starter batteries but I will save that for a different thread.

Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM · December 18, 2017, 02:05:43 PM

Leave a light on.

Put a drop light in your water bay and unless it gets way below 0 degrees, your water should not freeze. This is a very broad statement, your mileage may vary. I have had quite a bit of experience in below freezing weather as I like to go skiing and never had a problem. But it all depends how your bus is set up. This is assuming your tanks are in baggage compartments where they are protected from the elements.

chessie4905 · December 18, 2017, 03:24:32 PM

100 watt light bulb works well. Make sure to get a rough service one. They last longer. Why not drain and add RV antifreeze to system so you don't have an issue when it really gets a cold snap.

windtrader · December 18, 2017, 04:02:42 PM

Anti-freeze in the fresh water lines makes nasty tasting coffee. I still to figure out exactly how to control the heaters in the bays. It seems there is a t-stat in one; maybe it is used to control them all. Make sure your house batteries have enough capacity to run 100 watt incandescents while off grid. A small weber filled with charcoal should keep things warm too.

Scott & Heather · December 18, 2017, 04:06:14 PM

Hey Gary and chessie, inside an uninsulated bay, do you guys think a 100 watt bulb would do the trick? I have always had a 1500 watt space heater down there but it really is using too much power. I don't need it warm in there, just above freezing....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM · December 18, 2017, 04:38:08 PM

A 100W bulb is fine. 60W is sufficient unless it gets below about 20 degrees. But most drop lights should have 100W bulbs anyway (rough service as noted before) so you can use it for double-duty and they won't break if bounced around some or get a bit wet. Using two drop lights gives you a bit of extra insurance as all bulbs will eventually burn out. And of course, you must use incandescent bulbs.

If it is windy outside, the heat may dissipate faster if it is not insulated or air tight. A 1500W cube heater (with a fan) will definitely give you a bit more insurance. I have used them when it got below 0 degrees. The good thing about a cube heater is you can set the thermostat so they don't run all of the time but it may also trip a breaker if anything else comes on on that circuit. A light bulb can be seen peaking thru the cracks at night so that can help too.

You can also get a remote thermometer and stick it down there if you are concerned and some come with alarms on them for extra measure.

A busted water line is not generally the end of the world in a bus conversion because all lines are generally easily accessible unlike some stick-n-staple units where they build the tanks in before installing the appliances so they are inaccessible.

This system works well if you plan on living in the bus or leaving it for a few days, but as noted before, if you plan on being away from the bus, it is better to drain the lines and put potable anti-freeze in all of the traps. But just remember to bypass the water heater first otherwise it will take a lot of antifreeze to fill that up. And yes, your water can taste a bit nasty for a while. If you are concerned about that, you can also use Vodka to winterize your system as that is good to about 15 below zero and doesn't leave that nasty smell.

PP · December 18, 2017, 04:45:09 PM

I use heat wrap on the hose all the way into the bay and up to where it either hits the water heater or enters the coach on the cold water side. Then I have 2- 100 Watt bulb, one directly beneath the dump valve (actually had that freeze shut one time) and another beneath the water filter (had one of them freeze and burst). All told I'm using around 500 watts for full protection. This has worked down to minus 19° F. I have a main Thermostat that kicks it all on at 38° F. BTW-it's getting harder to find the good old fashioned bulbs that really generate heat.
Good luck because I don't plan on being in such climates again,

Will and Wife

eagle19952 · December 18, 2017, 05:45:32 PM

water bed heaters never seemed to fail... are 200 watt and temper a whole lot more water...and are thermostatically controlled.
i use 500 watt cubes on low.
they are often not running when i open the bays.

Geoff · December 18, 2017, 06:00:23 PM

I put my fresh water tanks under the bed, and of course they are not going to freeze if I'm using the bus. What I worry about is my holding tanks in the bay. I have a water bed heater for them but I haven't needed it yet. I blew all the water out of the system 2 months ago and haven't gone anywhere yet.

lvmci · December 18, 2017, 06:05:20 PM

Hi All, don't use a LED bulb! They Don't create much heat, lvmci...

skihor · December 18, 2017, 06:32:52 PM

I routed one of the heat ducts from the Suburban furnace into my water bay. I live full time and have limited electricity so needed something. I have kept my water flowing @ -20F

windtrader · December 18, 2017, 09:09:36 PM

How about a electric heated blanket? Drape it over/around the tanks.

plyonsMC9 · December 18, 2017, 10:35:55 PM

For piece of mind, I have been using these temperature probes:

SensorPush Wireless Thermometer / Hygrometer for iPhone / Android - Humidity & Temperature Smart Sensor with Alerts
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AEQ9X9I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Along with the "SensorPush G1 WiFi Gateway". Been working excellent - but you need to have a wireless access point around. For me that's not an issue as the bus is parked while at home near a WAP. The probe pushes temps out through the gateway up to the cloud, then down to my iPhone. Plus I can see how the temps were running over the past week, or just overnight. There's also an alerting capability - they can send you a heads up that temps are approaching the danger zone. If you want to use these and have pets, for example during summer months, so you can ensure that the bus a/c units, campground power, etc. didn't cut out and leave the small furry family members baking in the sun.. Just be sure to plug your Jet Pack or other WAP device plugged into your inverter, along w/ your gateway. Cost was around $150 for all components.

While it sounds complex, it only took about 10 minutes to program this, and it was _very_ easy to setup. Check out the reviews on Amazon. This is a good product. There are similar comparative products as well.

In the attached screenshot I can see that the temps in my bay & bus interior are just fine as outside temps are now below freezing and heading down to the low twenties.

Hope this helps, Phil

chessie4905 · December 19, 2017, 03:54:52 AM

They make nice forced air cube heaters with thermostats. You can try to find some at 500 to 1000 watts. I'd pick up a spare or two. Shop around and find some good deals. Remember to blow out dust accumulation annually, especially if used inside coach, as fires have started from excess dust accumulation in toe heaters. Sure, electric blanket should work if it is all you have but sorta bulky in a compartment and they don't like being in a pile or folded while on. All these choices aren't foolproof and can fail at inopportune time. If coach is going to sit all winter, better to drain, add rv antfreeze, add to drain traps. For crappy taste of coffee in spring, drink soda. Coffee stunts your growth anyway. (at least vertically). You can add a small .carbon water filter to your tap for this issue.

Branderson · December 19, 2017, 12:09:28 PM

I don't think I will have any issues with the tanks and yes they are in the bays. I actually didn't even think there was a chance of that freezing but it makes sense if I'm in freezing weather for a long time. I was more thinking about the water hook up to the bus. I like the idea of having a wrap for the hose.

I think I'm more worried about other lines breaking from the frozen water but b/c it was only that one morning I only had to deal with the hose.

I think to be safe, I shouldn't hook it up if I know it's going to freeze. I'd hate to break the filter system and lines going to all the places it goes.

Jeeze, I'm such a newb, that I don't even know where my water gets heated at. It must be electric b/c I don't use propane at all. So much to learn....